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Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#31

Post by zuppy »

flukus wrote: post #19
strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

Maybe if companies like google weren't so creepy and privacy invading they'd get the benefit of the doubt. But in the world of constantly expanding corporate surveillance I default to believing the worst. Only occasionally am I pleasantly surprised to be wrong.

I don't get why you've got downvoted, I have the same opinion. There were a lot of scandals related to privacy lately (and I'm not talking only about Google), it's easy to understand why people stop trusting large corporations. It's sad that we use the downvote button to suppress opinions that are different, instead of using it for marking low quality content.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#32

Post by pdkl95 »

jonas21 wrote: post #26
pdkl95 wrote: post #16

> It also said the microphone was originally included in the Nest Guard for the possibility of adding new security features down the line, like the ability to detect broken glass. Detecting broken glass with a microphone? Does the device even have enough CPU power (and RAM) to add advanced advanced audio processing features? Or was this going to upload the audio to Google's servers to do the work? If it's the latter,…

You don't need "advanced audio processing" to detect a glass window breaking because it is loud, and has a distinctive spectrogram. It's a lot easier to detect glass breaking than a wake word, and you can buy standalone acoustic glass break sensors for under $30. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Intellisense-FG-1625-Acoust...

Ok, so it could at least plausibly have been local processing. I haven't been able to find out what kind of CPU/etc is in the device, and most of the features would have been easy to implement on the almost any hardware. It would have been even stranger to also include a powerful (expensive) CPU to do a bunch of audio processing, but if there are techniques that work on $30 devices, that opens up a much broader range of cheaper hardware.

(I still think it's insane that the bean counters and value engineers let them include a microphone that wasn't needed.)

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#33

Post by kalleboo »

craftyguy wrote: post #3
wpearse wrote: post #2

I wonder if Singapore Airlines has something new to say about the cameras in their IFE system? https://twitter.com/vkamluk/status/1097008518685573120

Of all places to 'spy' on folks, on a cramped airplane seems like the worst. Most people will be 1) asleep, 2) pissed off, 3) eating shitty food, 4) watching bad movies. It's likely that they decided to shove in some cheap android tablets that someone else sold them. It's unlikely that they are actively watching everyone, though the possibility of them switching on the camera to watch/record you shifting in your seat…

I used to go to a gym where the exercise machines all had Windows tablets built in. They all had a camera and Skype installed. I'm still curious who ever wants to Skype all sweaty during an exercise, but probably the same person who wants to Skype on an airplane.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#34

Post by sl1ck731 »

dnbgfher wrote: post #29
strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

For Google, I'm not sure how option 2 is supposed to be acceptable either. It is perfectly reasonable to be concerned about introducing an internet-connected microphone into your house. It doesn't even require assuming a malicious Google to see potential problems with this. You're one decent security flaw (in an IoT device no less) from anybody having a microphone in your house.

I don't know which specs exactly people are referencing, but if its marketing specs or the specs you would see on the box then I don't expect consumer products to have "microphone (disabled)" for unused hardware just as I wouldn't expect it to list some unused PCB circuitry.

It might be reasonable to be concerned about this kind of thing in the tech crowd, but the vast majority of people aren't.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#35

Post by [deleted] »

jrowley wrote: post #5

It’s really sad to see companies like google buy companies like nest, or more recently amazon and eero. These little companies build fantastic devices, then the companies get acquired and the elegant products get mutated to serve their new owners. Finally a new player enters the market and the cycle continues.

[deleted]

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#36

Post by [deleted] »

est31 wrote: post #25

Oh wow, this is amazing. There's been a lawsuit in court about someone in Germany who sued their landlord because the landlord has put a Google Nest fire alarm into their flat against their will, ignoring offers by the renter to put in a non-google-non-iot fire alarm at the renter's expense. The landlord won because apparently the court was not convinced that the fire alarm could spy on conversations [1]... What woul…

[deleted]

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#37

Post by Gibbon1 »

strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

If the mic is on the BOM it's not disabled.

It's just not being currently used.

Maybe.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#38

Post by taneq »

strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

> 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department

If you design in something which is later not used, you don't populate that part of the circuit board. Not unless you're intending to use it later, anyway. Components cost money.

A software equivalent would be "we had plans to offer an integrated backup system but that didn't happen, although we still upload your contacts list and the contents of your SMSes to our servers."

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#39

Post by schaefer »

jrowley wrote: post #5

It’s really sad to see companies like google buy companies like nest, or more recently amazon and eero. These little companies build fantastic devices, then the companies get acquired and the elegant products get mutated to serve their new owners. Finally a new player enters the market and the cycle continues.

I agree. FB + oculus rift

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#40

Post by DannyBee »

jrowley wrote: post #5

It’s really sad to see companies like google buy companies like nest, or more recently amazon and eero. These little companies build fantastic devices, then the companies get acquired and the elegant products get mutated to serve their new owners. Finally a new player enters the market and the cycle continues.

If you believe nest became more like Google, you clearly never met Tony.

At least in that case, you have it very very backwards. Nest made Google more like Nest, not the other way around.

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