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Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

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Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#31

Post by deegles »

lolc wrote: post #11

I wonder whether even if there is a causal link, the diet version will still be healthier (for low values of healthy) than the sugary version. I tend to think so. I would assume the people most likely to drink diet beverages do so to wean themselves off of sugary drinks. That's one of the first steps in getting towards a healthier lifestyle. The article notes this too. A mystery to me is why they haven't asked about…

I had a coworker who insisted diet sodas were worse for you than regular sodas. I just don't understand how people reach that kind of conclusion.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#32

Post by floathub »

It is entirely unclear how any controls were implemented. They say "after controlling for lifestyle factors" but do not say which factors nor how they controlled for them. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that diet beverages are simply a proxy for some other factor. Maybe even just weight. To wit:

    "This association may also be contributed 
    to by rising blood pressure and sugars 
    that were not yet diagnosed as hypertension 
    or diabetes but warranted weight loss," 
    thus leading the women in the study to take 
    up diet beverages, said Dr. Keri Peterson, 
    medical advisor for the Calorie Research Council, an
    international association representing the low- and
    reduced-calorie food and beverage industry.
This possibility makes the implication that there is some causal relationship pretty tenuous. This question:

    "What is it about these diet drinks?" asked 
     lead study author Yasmin Mossavar-Rahmani ...
might well be answered with, "nothing at all actually".

(edited for quotes because I keep forgetting this is not markdown)

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#33

Post by owlninja »

zzzcpan wrote: post #28
lolc wrote: post #11

I wonder whether even if there is a causal link, the diet version will still be healthier (for low values of healthy) than the sugary version. I tend to think so. I would assume the people most likely to drink diet beverages do so to wean themselves off of sugary drinks. That's one of the first steps in getting towards a healthier lifestyle. The article notes this too. A mystery to me is why they haven't asked about…

> A mystery to me is why they haven't asked about consumption of sugary drinks at the same time. Obviously because sugary drinks manufacturers are paying for the article and the "study".

Link?

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#34

Post by swah »

zzzcpan wrote: post #28
lolc wrote: post #11

I wonder whether even if there is a causal link, the diet version will still be healthier (for low values of healthy) than the sugary version. I tend to think so. I would assume the people most likely to drink diet beverages do so to wean themselves off of sugary drinks. That's one of the first steps in getting towards a healthier lifestyle. The article notes this too. A mystery to me is why they haven't asked about…

> A mystery to me is why they haven't asked about consumption of sugary drinks at the same time. Obviously because sugary drinks manufacturers are paying for the article and the "study".

But Coke sells Coke, Diet Coke, juices and bottled water. What difference does it make to them?

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#35

Post by zdkl »

nikk1 wrote: post #30
bluedino wrote: post #15

I’ve never seen a skinny person regularly drink Diet Coke/Pepsi Diet carbonated drinks just make me gassy. I’d rather have the sugar from a regular Coke and just not drink one every day, or multiple ones per day. I have co-workers that drink 6-8 per day. I find the “tiny” cans which are only 7.5 are about the perfect size. 3-4 drinks, only 80 cslories, a small bump of sugar...if I drink a 20oz bottle I usually can’t…

Caffeine, sugar, (and alcohol) aren't necessarily bad for you. Joe Rogan repeats a phrase on his podcast all the time that I quite like, "keep all things in moderation, including moderation itself"

That's originally Oscar Wilde “Everything in moderation, including moderation.”

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#36

Post by mattferderer »

nikk1 wrote: post #30
bluedino wrote: post #15

I’ve never seen a skinny person regularly drink Diet Coke/Pepsi Diet carbonated drinks just make me gassy. I’d rather have the sugar from a regular Coke and just not drink one every day, or multiple ones per day. I have co-workers that drink 6-8 per day. I find the “tiny” cans which are only 7.5 are about the perfect size. 3-4 drinks, only 80 cslories, a small bump of sugar...if I drink a 20oz bottle I usually can’t…

Caffeine, sugar, (and alcohol) aren't necessarily bad for you. Joe Rogan repeats a phrase on his podcast all the time that I quite like, "keep all things in moderation, including moderation itself"

"It has been my experience that those with no vices have very few virtues."

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#37

Post by francisofascii »

deegles wrote: post #31
lolc wrote: post #11

I wonder whether even if there is a causal link, the diet version will still be healthier (for low values of healthy) than the sugary version. I tend to think so. I would assume the people most likely to drink diet beverages do so to wean themselves off of sugary drinks. That's one of the first steps in getting towards a healthier lifestyle. The article notes this too. A mystery to me is why they haven't asked about…

I had a coworker who insisted diet sodas were worse for you than regular sodas. I just don't understand how people reach that kind of conclusion.

I believe the sugar industry was successful in creating the perception that artificial sweeteners can cause cancer. One of the first, sodium cyclamate, was in fact, banned.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#38

Post by Retric »

zzzcpan wrote: post #26
bluedino wrote: post #15

I’ve never seen a skinny person regularly drink Diet Coke/Pepsi Diet carbonated drinks just make me gassy. I’d rather have the sugar from a regular Coke and just not drink one every day, or multiple ones per day. I have co-workers that drink 6-8 per day. I find the “tiny” cans which are only 7.5 are about the perfect size. 3-4 drinks, only 80 cslories, a small bump of sugar...if I drink a 20oz bottle I usually can’t…

> I’d rather have the sugar from a regular Coke I guess this is what the article tries to achieve. Just PR to steer you to more unhealthy consumption. Safe choice here was always to simply avoid sweet beverages altogether, and not just Coke, all the juices too.

As someone that drinks around 10oz of soda a week, I don’t think it qualifies as unhealthy consumption. It’s not perfect, but it’s below the threshold of meaningful impact on my weight.

People seem to focus on the daily consumption which is sadly common. But, there is a huge range between daily and never. I also eat fast food a few times a year which is fine.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#39

Post by drankula3 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #21

I concluded a some time ago that soda drinks weren't adding a lot of value for me at all. And I heard some people claim that the artificial sugars actually are not that great for you. 1) they teach your body that sweet stuff has no nutrition, which then becomes a problem when you actually eat sweet stuff 2) sweeteners like aspartame build up in your liver and fat deposits, which may or may not have long term impact.…

On 2 and 3: aspartame metabolizes into the amino acid phenylalanine, a precursor to dopamine and epinephrine[0]. In normal people, breakdown of the upstream neurotransmitters increase when phenylalanine increases, meaning there are no negative effects from it's consumption. It does not store in the liver.

There are some diseases that involve a malfunction in phenylalanine processing, like phenylketonuria[1] and hyperphenylalaninemia[2]. It would not surprise me a bit if people with subclinical forms of hyperphenylalaninemia self-medicate with diet soda to feel better, particularly energy drinks that come with other things that aid in dopamine synthesis. Disfunction in dopamine synthesis often affects other things like NO synthesis, affecting blood pressure and inflammation.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame?wprov=sfla1

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylketonuria?wprov=sfla1

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperphenylalaninemia?wprov=sf...

Edit: changed serotonin to epinephrine, as phenylalanine is not a precursor to serotonin.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#40

Post by rcdmd »

The linked CNN article is a very poor summary. It doesn't even include a proper citation, and the link to the study isn't directing to the one being discussed!? Come on, CNN.

I recommend reading the editorial in Stroke instead: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/STROKEAHA.119.02...

And you can get the article here if you have access to Stroke: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.118.023100

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