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Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

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Re: Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

#31

Post by wr1472 »

tc wrote: post #4

"Nobody went to his aid at the very beginning when he first collapsed -- that just perplexed me beyond reason," Why didn't she? Perhaps she was in the middle of a row. But often the reason that no one helps is that everyone is expecting someone else to do it -- someone more official or someone better located. If a person needs help, don't look around for who else is moving. Go help. -- A story, while we're on the sub…

Superfreakonmics[2] talks about this in chapter 3 about the Kitty Genovese[1] murder when no one went to her aid, in effect everyone thinking that someone else would go. They do expand on it further and blow apart some of the urban myths surrounding all the events (I can't remember the specifics now unfortunately). Definitely worth reading.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese [2] http://freakonomicsbook.com/superfreakonomics/chapter-excerp...

Re: Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

#32

Post by pmichaud »

tc wrote: post #4

"Nobody went to his aid at the very beginning when he first collapsed -- that just perplexed me beyond reason," Why didn't she? Perhaps she was in the middle of a row. But often the reason that no one helps is that everyone is expecting someone else to do it -- someone more official or someone better located. If a person needs help, don't look around for who else is moving. Go help. -- A story, while we're on the sub…

One of my earlier essays was about the bystander effect: http://www.petermichaud.com/essays/the-bomb-and-the-bystande...

Re: Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

#33

Post by peter_and »

karanlyons wrote: post #23
peter_and wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was there (in the 3rd balcony) it was seriously shocking. As dumb as it sounds, I think some people thought it was part of his act, although when he collapsed the second time, it still took about 15 seconds for someone to come to his aid. None of the 20+ staff at the auditorium came to help immediately either, which was even more shocking, since I hope that they would have some idea of what to do in a…

To clarify (and I can't believe this is what prompted me to create an account, but there you go): The first time he fainted, everyone just thought it was part of the speech. The second time, staff immediately came to his aid. This isn't some crisis with my generation or anything. It was just confusion.

Your generation == My generation

Perhaps it looked different from my vantage point, but the first person to rush to help him when he fainted the second time was not a staff member of the auditorium, it was a Program Board representative (read: one of the students who organized the event) seated in one of the first few rows. I did not see one of the red shirt Bovard employees until after that student acted.

I didn't intend to imply that there's a problem with our generation (as others have).

Re: Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

#34

Post by reduxredacted »

eel wrote: post #30

How should one help someone who unexpectedly collapses? I have no idea what I would do. I can only envision myself going up and dumbly asking "Are you OK?" which I am not sure is the best way to help.

How should one help someone who unexpectedly collapses?

Exactly what you said. Walk up to the person and loudly ask "Are you OK?". If you get a response, then you can ask further questions and provide help. If you get no response, your next move is to use first aid skills and call emergency services. If you are trained in CPR, proceed. Your loud voice might also catch the attention of someone with the appropriate training, or someone who can call emergency services while you administer CPR.

... But this wasn't someone collapsing at a mall, on the street or somewhere else where they might not be noticed. This was someone collapsing on stage. Standing up, rushing the stage and attempting to help could just as easily have caused a riot of well meaning folks and could have gotten in the way of staff who should be trained to deal with this sort of circumstance. I'm not accosting staff for not being prepared, I'm just defending those in the audience who didn't rush to help. As a child, I did a lot of community theater (the sort where you pay $5 to participate and your mother may need to sew your costume), and there was always someone with the appropriate training to handle a circumstance like this (usually our lone director, or a member of tech). Thankfully, we never had an incident, but this makes me wonder ... would they have responded within 15 seconds or waited to see if I tripped and could ad-lib my way back into character? I really don't know.

Re: Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

#35

Post by InclinedPlane »

eel wrote: post #30

How should one help someone who unexpectedly collapses? I have no idea what I would do. I can only envision myself going up and dumbly asking "Are you OK?" which I am not sure is the best way to help.

Why do you not have any idea what to do? It's well within your power to get trained. First aid and CPR classes are cheap and don't take much time (first aid certs last 3 years, CPR certs 1 year). Even if you let your certification lapse you'll still have a better idea of how to recognize and respond to potentially life threatening situations.

I'll spoil some of the training though. Unconsciousness should always be treated as a life threatening condition. If someone goes unconscious you should walk up to their body (assuming its safe to do so), tap them lightly (the shoulder is a good place) and ask if they are OK. Don't move them or otherwise touch them but if they still appear to be unconscious call 911. Anyone can do that, and sometimes it can save lives.

Re: Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

#36

Post by gruseom »

wr1472 wrote: post #31
tc wrote: post #4

"Nobody went to his aid at the very beginning when he first collapsed -- that just perplexed me beyond reason," Why didn't she? Perhaps she was in the middle of a row. But often the reason that no one helps is that everyone is expecting someone else to do it -- someone more official or someone better located. If a person needs help, don't look around for who else is moving. Go help. -- A story, while we're on the sub…

Superfreakonmics[2] talks about this in chapter 3 about the Kitty Genovese[1] murder when no one went to her aid, in effect everyone thinking that someone else would go. They do expand on it further and blow apart some of the urban myths surrounding all the events (I can't remember the specifics now unfortunately). Definitely worth reading. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese [2] http://freakono…

That's interesting, because Cialdini's classic Influence covers this same ground (http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Busine...). Has anyone read both books? I'm curious as to whether Superfreakonomics added anything over Cialdini's treatment.

Re: Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

#37

Post by eli »

wr1472 wrote: post #31
tc wrote: post #4

"Nobody went to his aid at the very beginning when he first collapsed -- that just perplexed me beyond reason," Why didn't she? Perhaps she was in the middle of a row. But often the reason that no one helps is that everyone is expecting someone else to do it -- someone more official or someone better located. If a person needs help, don't look around for who else is moving. Go help. -- A story, while we're on the sub…

Superfreakonmics[2] talks about this in chapter 3 about the Kitty Genovese[1] murder when no one went to her aid, in effect everyone thinking that someone else would go. They do expand on it further and blow apart some of the urban myths surrounding all the events (I can't remember the specifics now unfortunately). Definitely worth reading. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese [2] http://freakono…

Interestingly, while the bystander effect is a real thing -- the Kitty Genovese story doesn't really support it. As wikipedia points out in its understated way, the story that prompted all this research has "been criticized as inaccurate." There were actually very few witnesses who could have seen her murder and it's entirely possible that at least one of them did call the police.

Re: Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC

#39

Post by karanlyons »

peter_and wrote: post #33
karanlyons wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify (and I can't believe this is what prompted me to create an account, but there you go): The first time he fainted, everyone just thought it was part of the speech. The second time, staff immediately came to his aid. This isn't some crisis with my generation or anything. It was just confusion.

Your generation == My generation Perhaps it looked different from my vantage point, but the first person to rush to help him when he fainted the second time was not a staff member of the auditorium, it was a Program Board representative (read: one of the students who organized the event) seated in one of the first few rows. I did not see one of the red shirt Bovard employees until after that student acted. I didn't i…

> I didn't intend to imply that there's a problem with our generation (as others have).

And I do thank you for that.

I think what happened was a rapid delineation of responsibility: The red shirted Bovard employees were ushers, and so their job was to ensure that the audience didn't become (for gross lack of a better word due to little sleep on my part) hostile. The program board member's job was to go to Bill Nye, whilst the tech staff backstage went to get chairs, water, food, and the like. Meanwhile the people in the booth were calling DPS (the on campus police force), and 911.

The thing about everyone working that event is that they are all on headset. They were all no doubt following on instructions from their superiors on what was decided to be the best course of action. Whilst it may not have been the most PR friendly response, I can't help but think that having a large swarm of staff all run to Mr. Nye would be nearly as helpful as what (from the best I can tell, both from my experience as a member of the staff (I didn't work the event), and from what I heard from people who did work the event, and audience members as well) actually occurred.

Honestly, I'm having a hard time figuring out why this matters to me so much. On the one hand, I know these people, I work with them regularly, and I can't possibly fathom that they just stood there and did nothing. And indeed everything I've heard from trusted sources has been the exact opposite.

On the other hand, I'm annoyed that this is receiving as much attention as it is, as I don't think Mr. Nye wanted it that way (again, from what I've heard of him after the event), and I think trying to tie this incident to some sort of great failing of our generation is—frankly—ridiculous.

Perhaps the most important thing I'd like to illuminate in this comment would be that there is a far greater number of staff members working any event than the ones that you see, and just because you don't see anyone doing anything doesn't mean that they aren't. Though, yeah, I can imagine it looked bad.

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