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Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

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Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#31

Post by trimbo »

cromwellian wrote: post #2

Count me skeptical about of some of these 'self-made' billionaires. Pinduoduo for example, as with many Chinese companies, has been accused of falsifying revenues to pump stock prices. Yes, this stuff happens in the US as well (we all remember Enron and Theranos), but to what extent, are the statements of these companies transparent and well-audited, and regulated by government differs by region. And Bitmain? Is it t…

> devices now used extensively by the film industry.

It's not a big enough industry to support their valuation. Many companies have developed clever equipment for the film industry over the decades[1] and none has been valued at $15bn for it[2]. As an example: Panavision sold for $622M last year.

They really need to (edit: continue to) be selling to consumers. That said, I agree completely about their quality and success.

[1] - Check out some cool stuff here: https://camerarevolution.com/

[2] - Kodak might have been, once upon a time, but I can't find a breakdown of their motion picture revenue so it's hard to say.

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#32

Post by juhanima »

I'm an European and have worked with both the Chinese and the American during my 35 years in IT. I can understand very well why wealth flows to the east. The Chinese I have met are hard workers and eager to learn new things. The Americans I have met, on the other hand, have been arrogant and so sure of their own superiority, that they didn't bother to put much effort into it. Do the math.

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#33

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

CoreSet wrote: post #20
thesagan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not the same. For example, it's the U.S. that has the world's largest prison population and the world's most expensive healthcare, etc. China has different issues.

You're right that they have different issues, different problems, different strengths. But what irks me is the "what-aboutism." If Texas executes handicap people, that's awful. But it makes China harvesting organs OK? The U.S. has a horrible track record in Latin America and (frankly) around the world, so China gets some "slack" in how many human rights activists or lawyers it jails each year? I understand I'm respon…

It's not good when the USA behaves like that, and it's not good when China behaves like that.

Hopefully, as America's hegemony declines relative to other actors, the resulting multipolar world is fairer for more people.

Monopolies aren't a good thing in the commercial sphere, and they aren't a good thing in the political sphere, both lend themselves to abusive practices by those who can go unchallenged.

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#34

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

RA_Fisher wrote: post #10

Sure but China inflated its currency, that's a redistribution to asset holders. The acomplishments are admirable all the same, but the accelerated climb is probably boosted by inflation. I predict a correction in next year's list.

It's not really a redistribution to asset holders. These people get about the same in the long run. It's more like the removal of a subsidy on government paper. This promotes private asset creation.

https://medium.com/@b.essiambre/the-world-deserves-a-pay-rai...

There is no reason for a correction if they continue running a sufficiently inflationary monetary policy.

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#35

Post by jorblumesea »

I often wonder how much of this is because of China's government sponsored espionage and theft. It's a pretty clear pattern of APT hacks and then somehow a Chinese startup is making "huge strides" in advanced metamaterials manufacturing. Then they are subsidized with cheap (basically free) government loans which undercuts the market.

If the Chinese government steals trade secrets for its business and rigs the market in their favor, is that really "self made"?

Perhaps the title should be "party cadres and sons of the politically connected get richer".

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#36

Post by cromwellian »

trimbo wrote: post #31
cromwellian wrote: post #2

Count me skeptical about of some of these 'self-made' billionaires. Pinduoduo for example, as with many Chinese companies, has been accused of falsifying revenues to pump stock prices. Yes, this stuff happens in the US as well (we all remember Enron and Theranos), but to what extent, are the statements of these companies transparent and well-audited, and regulated by government differs by region. And Bitmain? Is it t…

> devices now used extensively by the film industry. It's not a big enough industry to support their valuation. Many companies have developed clever equipment for the film industry over the decades[1] and none has been valued at $15bn for it[2]. As an example: Panavision sold for $622M last year. They really need to (edit: continue to) be selling to consumers. That said, I agree completely about their quality and suc…

Yes, DJI literally shocked me when I bought the Mavic. They completely bust the stereotype that China is bad at design and innovation, e.g. "Designed in California, Assembled in China". Everything from the build quality, to the packaging, documentation, software, even customer support has impressed me.

They're like the canary in the coal mine, a wakeup signal for the Silicon Valley that thinks they're still on top because design and innovation happens here, and China is only for lower-on-the-supply chain stuff. If companies like DJI replicate, and China gets a few dozen Samsungs and Sonys, which become global brands and symbols of high quality instead of regional brands, one of the shining sectors of the US will have been caught with its pants down by misjudging their competition yet again.

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#37

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

trimbo wrote: post #31
cromwellian wrote: post #2

Count me skeptical about of some of these 'self-made' billionaires. Pinduoduo for example, as with many Chinese companies, has been accused of falsifying revenues to pump stock prices. Yes, this stuff happens in the US as well (we all remember Enron and Theranos), but to what extent, are the statements of these companies transparent and well-audited, and regulated by government differs by region. And Bitmain? Is it t…

> devices now used extensively by the film industry. It's not a big enough industry to support their valuation. Many companies have developed clever equipment for the film industry over the decades[1] and none has been valued at $15bn for it[2]. As an example: Panavision sold for $622M last year. They really need to (edit: continue to) be selling to consumers. That said, I agree completely about their quality and suc…

> They really need to be selling to consumers.

Huh? I don't understand your point, as they DO sell to consumers, and are the best known drone brand as it is.

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#38

Post by CoreSet »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #33
CoreSet wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that they have different issues, different problems, different strengths. But what irks me is the "what-aboutism." If Texas executes handicap people, that's awful. But it makes China harvesting organs OK? The U.S. has a horrible track record in Latin America and (frankly) around the world, so China gets some "slack" in how many human rights activists or lawyers it jails each year? I understand I'm respon…

It's not good when the USA behaves like that, and it's not good when China behaves like that. Hopefully, as America's hegemony declines relative to other actors, the resulting multipolar world is fairer for more people. Monopolies aren't a good thing in the commercial sphere, and they aren't a good thing in the political sphere, both lend themselves to abusive practices by those who can go unchallenged.

This is a great comment - thank you for the contribution.

I sort of go back and forth on the point though. I also think monopolies enable and contribute to abuse - but I worry that the multipolar order would just breed new battle grounds for the various contenders to establish supremacy. On the one hand, you can get the space race (woo, the moon!), on the other hand, you can get the arms race (boo and/or complicated yay, nuclear weapons!).

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#39

Post by sanxiyn »

cromwellian wrote: post #2

Count me skeptical about of some of these 'self-made' billionaires. Pinduoduo for example, as with many Chinese companies, has been accused of falsifying revenues to pump stock prices. Yes, this stuff happens in the US as well (we all remember Enron and Theranos), but to what extent, are the statements of these companies transparent and well-audited, and regulated by government differs by region. And Bitmain? Is it t…

Bitmain absolutely is an amazing tech company. You may want to read 2018 retrospective at Bitmain blog: https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-following-a-busy-2018-wh...

Re: Asia-Pacific is home to a rise in new self-made billionaires

#40

Post by trimbo »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #37
trimbo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> devices now used extensively by the film industry. It's not a big enough industry to support their valuation. Many companies have developed clever equipment for the film industry over the decades[1] and none has been valued at $15bn for it[2]. As an example: Panavision sold for $622M last year. They really need to (edit: continue to) be selling to consumers. That said, I agree completely about their quality and suc…

> They really need to be selling to consumers. Huh? I don't understand your point, as they DO sell to consumers, and are the best known drone brand as it is.

Sorry, yes I phrased that wrong. I meant they need to keep their focus there.
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