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Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

nytimes.com

31–40 of 541 posts

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#31
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Studying STEM is not natural to many kids That is purely a systemic problem, there's no reason that it couldn't be natural. Also there's no support for you argument, its mere opinion and unsubstantiated conjecture based upon false premises, but stated like fact.

> That is purely a systemic problem That's a bold claim. Evidence?

China.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#32
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the jobs require higher IQs than 85? Suddenly we have 15% of the population entirely unemployable? Wealth redistribution is a choice of ethics. What if we start to create better technologies that augment the economic usefulness of the lowest IQ people?

Wealth redistribution is a choice of ethics. If you study world history you’ll quickly realize that it’s ultimately the choice of the mob with the torches and pitchforks. You’d be amazed at how disinterested they are in moral relativism or a chat about Atlas Shrugged. Personally I’d prefer a more equitable redistribution based on planning, rather than a redistribution based on plutocrats being put up against a wall.…

I've had many a discussion about Atlas Shrugged, and in fact used to be an adherent to its philosophy. Until I realized something. For a pure Libertarian society to work, those who cannot work must die. If there is absolutely no social safety net, then if you are too sick to work, you can't make money and therefore can't get care and die. Sure, some will live through charity, but there would be far too many people who just can't make a net positive monetary contribution to society. What do those people do?

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#33
An article like this is worthless if it doesn't mention immigration, which it doesn't. It's basically a way to say "LEARN TO CODE" when the real problem is an unlimited supply of cheap labor via uncontrolled immigration. This is the same newspaper which has run "trucker shortage" stories for the last twenty years.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#34
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the average IQ of a STEM graduate is a standard deviation or more above average [0][1], then how does a more educated populace result in something besides the stratification we see today? STEM education can help a person get on the right side of the tech split, but the STEM education itself is already prohibitively difficult. [0] https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/which-major-has-highest-iq-... [1] http://www.randal…

Because providing a better base eduction lets those who are in that 1 SD above category actually use it. There are probably a lot of people right now who are 1 SD above but can't get the education they need to make use of it.

Everything will be fine when everybody is above average...

Historically, the economic promise has been that everyone who CAN get a job will just get a Different job when new technologies make their current jobs obsolete. Plow-pushers will become welders, for example.

And the usual futurist's question is whether instead the low-skill workers are more like horses in the 1930's, soon to be completely useless. The interesting argument in the article is that, well, even if the low-skill workers aren't completely unemployed, they'll be pushed forever into low-productivity industries that are happy enough paying them serf's wages... Perhaps keeping them just busy enough to avoid open revolt. (perhaps.)

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#35
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the jobs require higher IQs than 85? Suddenly we have 15% of the population entirely unemployable? Wealth redistribution is a choice of ethics. What if we start to create better technologies that augment the economic usefulness of the lowest IQ people?

Wealth redistribution is a choice of ethics. If you study world history you’ll quickly realize that it’s ultimately the choice of the mob with the torches and pitchforks. You’d be amazed at how disinterested they are in moral relativism or a chat about Atlas Shrugged. Personally I’d prefer a more equitable redistribution based on planning, rather than a redistribution based on plutocrats being put up against a wall.…

I mean, you can solve that problem with robots and technology, too. Revolting mobs of socialists can be dealt with pretty easily.

(If you’re going to start threatening murder as the premise of your theory of justice, you’d best make sure your side would actually be the one doing the killing.)

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#36
post #2

There are two solutions: Part one, a more educated populace. Education will help those that can work in the "good jobs" get the good jobs. Part two, tax policy. Wealth needs to be redistributed so that there are masses to buy the products that the wealthy are creating. Edit: I just watched this post go up to 10 points, down to 3 and then back to 5. Clearly this is controversial. I find it interesting that wealth redi…

“Redistribution” is inherently unfair; there is no “redistribution” except by force. Venezuela was the most recent in the vast row of examples of how redistribution works; probably not the last, as the idea keeps being pushed by some people for some reason, completely unimaginable to me.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#37

The problem is that as a society we believe that people need to work 40 hours a week to survive. We replace people with robots and retain the same output. We are more productive than ever before, yet work the same amount. Physical and uneducated work is being replaced by automation, yet we expect these people replaced by robots to find jobs to survive where there are now none. I don't believe in Universal Basic Incom…

What about people who want to work? Their productivity increases even further, they make more money and inequity increases.

Or are you suggesting we ban working?

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#38
post #3

in a sense there is a split between bodies and brains. The bodies are competing with robotics and other physical manifestations of things that people value. This field seems to be decades ahead of the other group. The brains are competing with AI and other informational/decision value sets.

I don't know how you fit caregivers into that? The closest thing to automation is that some gadgets might make it easier for relatives to do more.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#39
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what the wealth redistribution is for. For the 15% that are unemployable.

With the USA seeing a decline in IQ and the IQ bar raising for tech jobs, It seems that percentage is going to be growing a lot more into the future.

Many people think IQ is meaningless and furthermore it is not used for hiring purposes.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#40

The problem is that as a society we believe that people need to work 40 hours a week to survive. We replace people with robots and retain the same output. We are more productive than ever before, yet work the same amount. Physical and uneducated work is being replaced by automation, yet we expect these people replaced by robots to find jobs to survive where there are now none. I don't believe in Universal Basic Incom…

People can contribute in many ways, I don't agree that only contributions that furthers someone else's economic goals should be judged worthy.

That said, I don't think we will see shortening of the workday without some sort of incentive for employers. From their point of view, why not simply make more money? Indeed, for many boards of directors profits is the only goal.

IMHO, this is where a basic income would fit in. Perhaps when people are allowed more freedom of movement they will find novel ways to contribute to society.

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