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Product-building articles by PMs at major tech companies

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Re: Product-building articles by PMs at major tech companies

#31

General question I've been wondering tangentially related: Engineers: is working [edit: replacing 'under' with 'with' due to replies! good clarification, didn't mean under] with a non-technical product manager a dealbreaker for you? (Do you look to filter out places you'd work at while job searching?) Conversely, have you ever worked under a non-technical product manager you loved? Would you mind sharing details abou…

I was a non-engineering background PM (I dropped out of high school). I can tell you about what I didn't know early in my career that was painful for me then (and something I've internalized hard now): It's ok to say "I don't know". Conversely, saying "I have the answer" when you don't is lying. The worst thing you can do as a PM is to make a technical assertion that you don't understand to a technical audience. You…

To add to your comment, "I don't know" is a critical phrase, and so is following it with "help me understand the technical issues at play here" -- technical people generally love teaching someone who is curious, respectful, and has asked them to help guide a decision that is at least in part technical.

This works especially well when they can see you making a sincere effort to understand, by paraphrasing and repeating back what they've explained to you: "So what you're saying is that this component works like such and such, and one weakness of the approach is xyz? Am I understanding right?"

Also involving them in the business issues at play can help - "I hear you saying this approach will be more robust in the long run, and what you say makes a lot of sense to me. I'm struggling to balance this against business issues of the expected lifetime of this feature and our target ship date. If we are in a situation where we don't expect to use this feature for long and we have ship date pressure, what are your thoughts on the approach that is less robust in the long run?"

Doing the above helps keep people from thinking you're a poser who refuses to understand the issues, and also helps technical people from becoming grumpy about what may look like idiotic decisions that are in fact driven by a business issue that nobody told them about or included them on.

Re: Product-building articles by PMs at major tech companies

#32

General question I've been wondering tangentially related: Engineers: is working [edit: replacing 'under' with 'with' due to replies! good clarification, didn't mean under] with a non-technical product manager a dealbreaker for you? (Do you look to filter out places you'd work at while job searching?) Conversely, have you ever worked under a non-technical product manager you loved? Would you mind sharing details abou…

I was a non-engineering background PM (I dropped out of high school). I can tell you about what I didn't know early in my career that was painful for me then (and something I've internalized hard now): It's ok to say "I don't know". Conversely, saying "I have the answer" when you don't is lying. The worst thing you can do as a PM is to make a technical assertion that you don't understand to a technical audience. You…

> "why don't you just rip out Mongo?"

Related tip: ban the word "just" from your vocabulary. As an engineer, hearing a non-engineer say "can't we just X" is never a positive experience. Just that one word carries so much baggage - it's the shortest way possible to say "I don't value your expertise or expect you to have thought this through".

Sentences with "just" in them always work better if you drop the word.

"Why don't you rip out Mongo?" - now we can have a conversation.

"Why don't you just rip out Mongo?" - you've just started a much more hostile conversation entirely by accident.

Re: Product-building articles by PMs at major tech companies

#34
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner is struggling with this very thing at her work, I'm curious: what are go-to resources for PMs in terms of professional development?

Working with more senior PMs is the only working solution I have found. Product Management is a very complex role...there is no straight forward learning path today other than doing the job ,building shit and strong mentor ship!

I couldn't agree more. I had the PM title twice before I worked with some senior PMs at a very successful Fortune 50. What a difference experience makes. I cringe when I think about how incompetent I was in my first two PM roles.

Re: Product-building articles by PMs at major tech companies

#37
post #36

I've been a PM for over 2 years now, and not really sure it is right for me anymore. Anyone jump from PM to something else?

What were the parts that you thought were not a great fit?

It's just an extremely nebulous role and completely different from company to company, which means you could be perceived as great in one co and terrible in another. I find it hard to measure my own real value.

Re: Product-building articles by PMs at major tech companies

#38
post #2

There is clearly a lack of boards/forums/websites dedicated to product managers. But what I miss the more is a website, when we can get valuable insights about best practices. On HN you can get super useful information about any stack/language/framework by reading the comments, but when you are a PM you have nowhere to get that kind of information

It’s because the PM role is largely bullshit.

Re: Product-building articles by PMs at major tech companies

#39
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner is struggling with this very thing at her work, I'm curious: what are go-to resources for PMs in terms of professional development?

Working with more senior PMs is the only working solution I have found. Product Management is a very complex role...there is no straight forward learning path today other than doing the job ,building shit and strong mentor ship!

It's also very different from company to company. Some companies will refuse to hire non-technical PMs. In other companies you will find PMs who do not know basic SQL. It's strange.

Re: Product-building articles by PMs at major tech companies

#40
post #2

There is clearly a lack of boards/forums/websites dedicated to product managers. But what I miss the more is a website, when we can get valuable insights about best practices. On HN you can get super useful information about any stack/language/framework by reading the comments, but when you are a PM you have nowhere to get that kind of information

Agreed. Have you checked out BestPracticer? I've found it useful and they have a PM section too:

https://bestpracticer.com/topic/product-management-151996004...

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