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Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

watchesbysjx.com

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Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#31

Post by Pristina »

paradoxparalax wrote: post #27
ryanlol wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* Avoid replicas and fakes ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHgKMA6Bh6U ) Why? These days chinese factories are pushing superb 4130 clones for the price of a decent seiko. This guy in the video seems to know nothing at all about the chinese watch industry.

Because a clone is criminal. As long as I know. And is not only against the law, It is morally theft, some people spent A Lot of money in design for some malicious smartass chinese guy to come and copy and sell by 10 times cheaper....This is Absurd. Some people are loosing their jobs , see , maybe me myself, i am loosing a job because of Falsification... Besides, Is not really necessary, Come one, people should come…

If some 'smartass chinese' guy can provide the same thing for 1/10th the price, then clearly the original maker is overcharging.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#32

Post by paradoxparalax »

ryanlol wrote: post #29
paradoxparalax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a clone is criminal. As long as I know. And is not only against the law, It is morally theft, some people spent A Lot of money in design for some malicious smartass chinese guy to come and copy and sell by 10 times cheaper....This is Absurd. Some people are loosing their jobs , see , maybe me myself, i am loosing a job because of Falsification... Besides, Is not really necessary, Come one, people should come…

>Some people are loosing their jobs , see , maybe me myself, i am loosing a job because of Falsification... Who exactly is losing their job because of fake watches? I do not believe that you will be able to present any convincing evidence that replica watches are actually hurting the sales of genuine watches. >Lot of money in design for some malicious smartass chinese guy to come and copy and sell by 10 times cheaper…

One someones buy a fake watch, he is not buying the real one, so is there a win-win to everybody here? who is the owner of the design?

man...if you were an inventor , and spend time inventing something nice, them you don't make money out of it, would you like that?

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#33

Post by Pristina »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #17
ryanlol wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you try to sell the watch as real, why would it be immoral?

Tricking people into buying fake watches is their business model, and it's a violation of copyright and trademark.

They don't 'trick' people in buying 'fake' watches. Great replica makers don't have to trick anybody, they offer a watch that look almost exactly like the original for 1/10th the price or less.

Being illegal does not make it immoral.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#34

Post by ryanlol »

paradoxparalax wrote: post #32
ryanlol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some people are loosing their jobs , see , maybe me myself, i am loosing a job because of Falsification... Who exactly is losing their job because of fake watches? I do not believe that you will be able to present any convincing evidence that replica watches are actually hurting the sales of genuine watches. >Lot of money in design for some malicious smartass chinese guy to come and copy and sell by 10 times cheaper…

One someones buy a fake watch, he is not buying the real one, so is there a win-win to everybody here? who is the owner of the design? man...if you were an inventor , and spend time inventing something nice, them you don't make money out of it, would you like that?

>One someones buy a fake watch, he is not buying the real one, so is there a win-win to everybody here?

I would think that this is extremely uncommon. I think the following scenario is more likely:

"X buys fake watch, X likes fake watch, X buys the real watch"

>who is the owner of the design?

The whole fake/not-fake thing usually has very little to do with the actual design of the watch, but the branding.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#35

Post by vernie »

_skel wrote: post #19
shawnps wrote: post #10

For anyone interested in purchasing a mechanical watch, there are plenty of brands making affordable mechanical timepieces today. Hamilton, Seiko, Tissot, Swatch, Orient, and Timex are a few that come to mind for the sub-$1000 category. It's a fun hobby with a nice community of enthusiasts. Some advice: * If possible, wear the watch before buying it. Seeing a watch on your wrist is different from seeing photos of it.…

Ironically there has never been a better time to buy an affordable mechanical watch than now. Quartz won because the mechanical watches that most people could afford in the 1970s were very inaccurate. A cheap quartz watch was more accurate than any mechanical watch and anybody could afford one by the late 1970s -- although they were very expensive at first. Affordable mechanical watches on the market today are much m…

They're still nowhere near as accurate as quartz, even on the high end, and accuracy also varies depending on the orientation of the watch.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#36

Post by SamReidHughes »

ryanlol wrote: post #28
SamReidHughes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the watch companies that adopted anti-counterfeiting measures believe otherwise. Edit: And the fake watch makers copy those anti-counterfeiting measures. That's how we know your story about buyers being aware of what they're buying falls apart.

What's an anti-counterfeiting measure? Is the rolex rehaut engraving an anti-counterfeiting measure? If yes, how is it distinguishable from decoration? Sure, Rolex has their LEC but that probably has more to do with identifying OEM crystals than anti-counterfeiting. What anti-counterfeiting measures were you thinking of? I can't come up with many.

Freaking Seiko 5's had etched crystals as an anti-counterfeiting measure, and you want to pretend Rolex's aren't? Get real.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#37

Post by ryanlol »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #36
ryanlol wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an anti-counterfeiting measure? Is the rolex rehaut engraving an anti-counterfeiting measure? If yes, how is it distinguishable from decoration? Sure, Rolex has their LEC but that probably has more to do with identifying OEM crystals than anti-counterfeiting. What anti-counterfeiting measures were you thinking of? I can't come up with many.

Freaking Seiko 5's had etched crystals as an anti-counterfeiting measure, and you want to pretend Rolex's aren't? Get real.

Is it a measure to combat counterfeit watches or to separate OEM crystals from third party ones?

It's usually not very hard to source OEM crystals, so to me it seems more likely that this would be about third party crystals and not counterfeit watches.

Can you think of any other supposed anti-counterfeiting measures besides the laser etched crystals? If this is something that the watch companies actually pursued it would be weird if they stopped at just that.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#38

Post by SamReidHughes »

ryanlol wrote: post #37
SamReidHughes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freaking Seiko 5's had etched crystals as an anti-counterfeiting measure, and you want to pretend Rolex's aren't? Get real.

Is it a measure to combat counterfeit watches or to separate OEM crystals from third party ones? It's usually not very hard to source OEM crystals, so to me it seems more likely that this would be about third party crystals and not counterfeit watches. Can you think of any other supposed anti-counterfeiting measures besides the laser etched crystals? If this is something that the watch companies actually pursued it w…

They're going to put this conversation in a chapter about motivated reasoning someday.

Seiko 5's had laser etched crystals as an anti-counterfeiting measure, and then, because counterfeiters copied that, they switched to open casebacks, an anti-counterfeiting measure that is used across the industry.

"Counterfeiting costs the watchmaking industry billions each year."

- Nick Hayek, CEO of the Swatch Group.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#39

Post by twblalock »

vernie wrote: post #35
_skel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically there has never been a better time to buy an affordable mechanical watch than now. Quartz won because the mechanical watches that most people could afford in the 1970s were very inaccurate. A cheap quartz watch was more accurate than any mechanical watch and anybody could afford one by the late 1970s -- although they were very expensive at first. Affordable mechanical watches on the market today are much m…

They're still nowhere near as accurate as quartz, even on the high end, and accuracy also varies depending on the orientation of the watch.

That will always be true, but they are accurate enough for daily use. A 1970s mechanical Timex could gain or lose a few minutes a day. If you go a week without setting it the watch would be way off.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#40

Post by beezischillin »

paulgb wrote: post #8
beezischillin wrote: post #5

I can’t help but admire people who create incredible intricate pieces of mechanical art hy hand. Not ever in my life could I hope to replicate even a crude, barely functional version of such a device. While I’m not a watch geek, the process and methodology behind creating these time-pieces is endlessly fascinating to me. I’d totally love to watch a documentary of someone doing similar work!

I don't know where you're located, but you may enjoy the Horological Society of New York's traveling education program[1] if they are going to be near you. (I'm not affiliated with them, but I've enjoyed a few of their classes) [1] http://hs-ny.org/traveling-education/

Unfortunately I live in Transylvania, but thank you for you recommendation!
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