Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

edsurge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 49 posts

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#31

Post by hnuser355 »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #16
jaredtn wrote: post #11

Interesting comparison to the food industry's race to the bottom, only to be supplanted at the top by retails such as Trader Joe's. Could Facebook's addictive algorithms eventually be supplanted by something more wholesome? The difference between the food industry and social media is that a single person can switch grocery stores on a whim, but social media platform migration requires a crowd.

Facebook can easily be a dumpster fire, but I've found ways to get a lot of value out of it. First off, by not letting myself get dragged into bad behavior when provoked, which is hard, when it comes to talking about controversial topics, but primarily by focusing on single topic groups that keep a tight rein on topics of discussion... in other words, rules like "No politics or religion, etc." or "We are here because…

For me Facebook messenger is the only part that matters. If I don’t know you enough to speak with you on there I will never see your posts, since I very rarely go on the main site. So political opinions from my grandma don’t really enter into my usage

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#32

Post by NiloCK »

robbick wrote: post #3

I can see how forcing kids onto FB is a major issue, but the article seemed to imply the same was true for other Big Tech EDU platforms (AFAIK the main ones being Google Classroom and Microsoft Teams for Education) Do the same issues exist in these platforms?

I'm an educator in a 'Google' school board. We use google products for all documentation, and it's given me pause to think that Google's ML algorithms will be combing through allegedly confidential documents. Is it appropriate for a 3rd grader's bathroom accidents to be documented 'in the cloud', subject to Google's massive profile-making engine? Google Apps for Education (or whatever the title) makes assurances against targeted advertising for students, but it's anyone's guess as to what happens with student account data after it's exported to a 'grownup' account at graduation.

It's unclear to me whether confidential communication respecting students using Google products meets our legal obligations, given that I'm in Canada and (as far as I know) Google doesn't have any data centers physically located in Canada...

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#33

Post by jstewartmobile »

sctb wrote: post #29
jstewartmobile wrote: post #2

Big tech is a race to the bottom in general.

Please don't tease us! Some actual information would be nice.

I figured most people could come up with their own examples easily enough.

Take social media. I know so many people in business and media who did perfectly fine before it. Now that it's table stakes, we all have to waste time on it. Great for Twitter and FB, but just a cost for the rest of us.

Or youtube and the porn sites. If they infringe, what are you going to do about it? They take it down, someone else re-uploads--a full-time job to keep it off, and they're purely on the honor system when it comes to royalties. It's not like you can sic your auditors on Google's server room.

Or ed-tech. So many school districts spending millions on VMs and tablets for every child, yet the academic performance is as mediocre as ever.

And it's like people have no concept of just how dangerous information is--like cracking the enigma machine in WWII. Google is probably sitting on enough info to ruin most of our politicians. What if they were inclined to action?

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#34

Post by cat199 »

joejerryronnie wrote: post #28
jrowley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a kid starts using a chromebook in elementary school (sometimes as young as kindergarten), they are more inclined to use google’s products later. They don’t even get the opportunity to make a conscious choice in their default tech platform, and google might not be the best choice for them. A kindergartener shouldn’t have to think about the privacy implications of their tech choices in my opinion, so maybe the defa…

In many cases, the alternative is no tech at all (or very limited tech), especially for schools located in lower socio-economic areas. This notion of tech companies essentially giving away their products to schools in order to influence future adopters has been going on for 30 years or more. With that said, educators should be made aware of this reality and should be upfront with their students that tech alternatives…

how about subsidies and open development for these sorts of software?

seems to be doing ok in the raspberry pi arena, etc...

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#35

Post by plussed_reader »

NiloCK wrote: post #32
robbick wrote: post #3

I can see how forcing kids onto FB is a major issue, but the article seemed to imply the same was true for other Big Tech EDU platforms (AFAIK the main ones being Google Classroom and Microsoft Teams for Education) Do the same issues exist in these platforms?

I'm an educator in a 'Google' school board. We use google products for all documentation, and it's given me pause to think that Google's ML algorithms will be combing through allegedly confidential documents. Is it appropriate for a 3rd grader's bathroom accidents to be documented 'in the cloud', subject to Google's massive profile-making engine? Google Apps for Education (or whatever the title) makes assurances agai…

Their algorithmic crawlers go over everything you upload to your Drive, however their promise is that data does not flow to advertisers or people who do not have access to the document.

You can choose to believe that or not, but that's the rub.

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#36

Post by plussed_reader »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #14
robbick wrote: post #3

I can see how forcing kids onto FB is a major issue, but the article seemed to imply the same was true for other Big Tech EDU platforms (AFAIK the main ones being Google Classroom and Microsoft Teams for Education) Do the same issues exist in these platforms?

So, if your child goes to a school which has "gone Google", personal information about your student is sent to Google without your consent, and their sole path to success depends on interacting with and sending more data to Google. Students are often required to purchase[1], carry, and use Google-controlled hardware daily as part of their routine. The student has no choice (and no chance at privacy), because the deci…

There are absolutely accommodations that can be made for parents who don't want certain aspects of the students data to enter the G Suite system. But you have to participate and engage with your district, and not just let the wheels of bureaucracy turn for new student enrollment.

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#38

Post by joejerryronnie »

cat199 wrote: post #34
joejerryronnie wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many cases, the alternative is no tech at all (or very limited tech), especially for schools located in lower socio-economic areas. This notion of tech companies essentially giving away their products to schools in order to influence future adopters has been going on for 30 years or more. With that said, educators should be made aware of this reality and should be upfront with their students that tech alternatives…

how about subsidies and open development for these sorts of software? seems to be doing ok in the raspberry pi arena, etc...

I think the challenge is that it’s hard to compete with the large vendors on a full stack, turn key solution. It’s one thing for a STEAM focused specialist to pull together a disparate set of open source apps into a workable model but your typical teacher doesn’t have the time to do that and still focus on their day job. Most teachers need technical solutions that are integrated, work 99% of the time, and have a very simple learning curve (not denigrating teachers’ technical abilities, this is more of a time thing - they need to be up and running quickly)

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#39

Post by BLKNSLVR »

germinalphrase wrote: post #10
dest wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think such statement is hazardous. What if you need to build maps for all the world? What if you want to go to Mars? What if you want to build a payment system? Small actors could not do that.

Why do we need to go to Mars? Edit: I realize it’s an unpopular question here, but other than it being cool - why do we need a Mars colony?

Off-site backup

Re: Former Google Design Ethicist: Big Tech in Schools Is Race to the Bottom (2018)

#40

Post by chrshawkes »

jrowley wrote: post #9
robbick wrote: post #3

I can see how forcing kids onto FB is a major issue, but the article seemed to imply the same was true for other Big Tech EDU platforms (AFAIK the main ones being Google Classroom and Microsoft Teams for Education) Do the same issues exist in these platforms?

If a kid starts using a chromebook in elementary school (sometimes as young as kindergarten), they are more inclined to use google’s products later. They don’t even get the opportunity to make a conscious choice in their default tech platform, and google might not be the best choice for them. A kindergartener shouldn’t have to think about the privacy implications of their tech choices in my opinion, so maybe the defa…

I used mac's as a kid in school in the 80's. I still don't use a mac.
Post reply on HN