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Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

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Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#31
post #27

Nice work Mozilla. Sometimes I wonder why we give so much importance for 1-2 second page load / javascript improvements. Does average user really care about 1-2 second difference?

Yes, certainly they do. Amazon even did that famous internal study showing that, other factors being equal, a page that loaded 200ms more slowly caused a statistically significant drop in revenue. (Even if end users aren't aware that they care, they care.)

Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#32

Congrats Mozilla on the release! Odd title though for this post, for where is the "everyone"? The link shows comparisons to previous versions of Firefox, not other browsers. One thing I hope they fix before final release though is the constant CPU usage when you have many tabs open. I thought the Panorama feature was supposed to address this. It's currently idling at around 25% CPU for me, and no, unfortunately I can…

> Odd title though for this post, for where is the "everyone"? The link shows comparisons to previous versions of Firefox, not other browsers. http://arewefastyet.com/ Sunspider’s not a very good benchmark; more interesting to me is that they’re nearly even with V8 in V8’s own benchmark. Though I wonder why they can’t backport TM, or at least a subset, to 3.6; is Firefox so monolithic that improvements to the scripth…

I'm very happy with the result. However, on some javascript intensive webpages, such as https://console.aws.amazon.com/s3/home, it hangs the whole Firefox for a little while. Hopefully with a long timeline to the release, no such issues remained.

Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#33
post #27

Nice work Mozilla. Sometimes I wonder why we give so much importance for 1-2 second page load / javascript improvements. Does average user really care about 1-2 second difference?

Yes. Two seconds is usually regarded as the rection time threshold where an ineractive system starts to turn into a batch system. It is long enough for the user to start to forget what he expects from the system or to think about swiching to another activity while the current one loads. That is also the reason why database transaction benchmarks are always defined by number of transactions per second at a response time of slightly under two seconds, that is the threshold where they can still claim that the benchmark measures something about a system that is actually usable in practice.

So cutting response times by a second from say two seconds to one second changes the percieved delays from barely tolereble to barely noticable, which is unually beneficial for interactive apps.

Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#35

I would use 4.0 Beta full-time if Firebug and Yahoo's Delicious extensions were updated. The memory utilization is great just like Firefox 3.6. Compare sometime the memory utilized while running many tabs in Chrome vs. Firefox over a prolonged period of time. Update: I found Firebug has an alpha release supporting Firefox 4. http://getfirebug.com/releases/firebug/1.7X/

I'm using 4.0 "full-time" and it's the nightly build :). The only thing you need is Compatibility Reporter extension. It's here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/15003

Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#36
post #27

Nice work Mozilla. Sometimes I wonder why we give so much importance for 1-2 second page load / javascript improvements. Does average user really care about 1-2 second difference?

My GOD yes. 400 milliseconds is big. 1000-2000 milliseconds is huge. Details from Google and Bing (via the ever-awesome Brady Forrest):

http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/06/bing-and-google-agree-slow-...

Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#37
post #19

Browsers keep improving JS speed, but is there an upper limit to how fast it can be? How far off is it from something like C ?

JS speed has improved so much recently due to optimisations like JIT (Just In Time compiling). There will be an upper limit eventually but we haven't hit it yet. It's damn fast but still a high-level interpreted language - time is taken for a program in the browser to compile it on the fly and run. It wont hit the speed of well written C code, but most things don't need that speed anyway.

I was browsing the language shootout the other day and came across the page for the regex test. I'm not sure how it's doing it or if something is wrong with the test but V8 is outperforming everything else, including C. That's the only test it leads though.

Here are the results: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/performance.php?test=r...

Also worth noting that TraceMonkey isn't too far behind. Does anyone know why the JS engines, especially V8, are performing so well on this test?

P.S. Here's how V8/TraceMonkey stack up for all the tests: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/which-programming-lang...

Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#38
Browser vendors talk about benchmarks all the time but what really matters to me is startup and closing times; here Chrome really shines and FF3.6 is slow as hell.

It's probably about perception; maybe the browser should show a window even if it's not really ready (and maybe there is a problem with plugins and add-ons that need to initialize themselves, etc.)

Anyway, how is FF4b7 doing in this regard...?

Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#39
post #38

Browser vendors talk about benchmarks all the time but what really matters to me is startup and closing times; here Chrome really shines and FF3.6 is slow as hell. It's probably about perception; maybe the browser should show a window even if it's not really ready (and maybe there is a problem with plugins and add-ons that need to initialize themselves, etc.) Anyway, how is FF4b7 doing in this regard...?

FF4b7 is still sower to startup than Chrome for me. They are right, though ... it does feel faster on webapps and rich sites than the previous beta.

Re: Firefox 4.0 Beta 7 - Super fluid, beats everyone on sunspider

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JS speed has improved so much recently due to optimisations like JIT (Just In Time compiling). There will be an upper limit eventually but we haven't hit it yet. It's damn fast but still a high-level interpreted language - time is taken for a program in the browser to compile it on the fly and run. It wont hit the speed of well written C code, but most things don't need that speed anyway.

I was browsing the language shootout the other day and came across the page for the regex test. I'm not sure how it's doing it or if something is wrong with the test but V8 is outperforming everything else, including C. That's the only test it leads though. Here are the results: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/performance.php?test=r... Also worth noting that TraceMonkey isn't too far behind. Does anyone know wh…

V8 JIT-compiles regular expressions. I don't know what C/C++ do -- I'd assume they run the state machine directly, but maybe they do compile it further like V8 does.

http://blog.chromium.org/2009/02/irregexp-google-chromes-new...

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