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Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

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Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#31
post #27

No matter what type or kind of interview you go to, it is unacceptable to be treated like this, even if you have started talking nonsense or unrelated to the interview questions. This guy's attitude represents what is currently happening inside that company: the environment must be extremely toxic to work in and as the others have said, you have just dodged a bullet. In all seriousness, I wouldn't want to work for su…

A billion? I'd do it for a billion. I could put up with a year of that for unimaginable wealth. Probably even a million to be honest.

$500,000 USD is the lowest I would go

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#32
> I tried saying "what if functions have the same name"..he spouted off about "how compilers are smart enough to know what the programmer wants based upon parameters provided [...]

This sounds like a potentially challenging social situation!

On the one hand, your preference for more explicit syntax has a lot of real merits, e.g. avoiding naming collisions as you've stated. But, if the interviewer's ranting and not quite willing to give due consideration, how do you handle the conversation (besides walking away)?

I think I'd take it like this:

1. Let them vent a bit.

2. Make an analogy to [weak-vs.-strong type systems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_and_weak_typing).

3. Acknowledge the merits and opportunities to benefit from the interviewer's preference (which is analogous to weak typing).

4. Suggest why you feel that, despite their own position having merits, you lean toward stronger syntax in your own coding.

5. Point out that you fully understand the weaker syntax and would be able to use it if called for on-the-job.

Since C++ is strongly typed and you're presumably interviewing for a C++-based position, you might focus on a consistency-of-design argument, perhaps gently putting forth the perspective that weaker syntax makes source code more script-like.

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#33
Many people have little things they obsess on, or at least over-focus on. That's just human nature. If you do something that agitates them, then chalk it off to random bad luck and move on. Everyone has their own code style preferences.

Related: http://wiki.c2.com/?NarrowStaffSelectionFactors , http://wiki.c2.com/?StuckOnPetFactors

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#34

> The interviewer just lost it. Went on this rant > And he was just plain mad. Uncomfortable mad. Good thing you found this out during the interview. No way you would want to deal with this on a daily basis. That's insane. If the company has an HR department you should consider telling them what happened.

> HR department you should consider telling them what happened.

Why? Better you dodge a bullet and GTFO. Don't waste time with telling them what they probably already know.

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#35
post #12

Honestly if I ever had someone yell at me in an interview I'd just pick my stuff up and walk out. Cheap way of figuring out you don't want to work there. Give feedback to the recruiter of what is unacceptable behaviour. As to the actual point I'm with you: be explicit. I write std::cout too. Not that I'd get upset if someone used "using namesace std" as long as such using statements are used judiciously, it's fine. L…

Why bother giving feedback to the recruiter? That's only going to improve the company he's not going to be working at, rewarding them for already failing to do their jobs (who put this guy is an interviewer's position? etc.)

That's only going to improve the company he's not going to be working at, rewarding them for already failing to do their jobs (who put this guy is an interviewer's position? etc.)

There's something paradoxical about this statement, I'm not sure if it's the way I'm reading it, or even if you intended it that way. But if there was a "failure" here, and I were in that company's HR and Recruiting shoes-I'd probably want to know about it, and surely you would too if it were your company looking to grow and bring in talent to reach goals?

Would you tolerate your staff treating candidates this way?

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#36
post #12

Honestly if I ever had someone yell at me in an interview I'd just pick my stuff up and walk out. Cheap way of figuring out you don't want to work there. Give feedback to the recruiter of what is unacceptable behaviour. As to the actual point I'm with you: be explicit. I write std::cout too. Not that I'd get upset if someone used "using namesace std" as long as such using statements are used judiciously, it's fine. L…

Why bother giving feedback to the recruiter? That's only going to improve the company he's not going to be working at, rewarding them for already failing to do their jobs (who put this guy is an interviewer's position? etc.)

That’s a disappointingly cynical view. It costs basically nothing to give that feedback, and that’s how organisations can improve.

We often see complaints here about how unwilling companies can be to provide feedback to job applicants. I’d definitely encourage applicants to similarly leave feedback for employers they reject, because it improves the system for everybody. And if you are in a position to do so, try to solicit feedback on your recruitment process from applicants too!

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#37
post #23

Given that your examples of using std::cout are using the wrong I/O direction, I am surprised you have "25 years experience of c++". Perhaps, that annoyed him too. Still, yelling doesn't help much of anything. Edit: OP changed post. Not fair to down vote....

I made it up for brevity in case the interviewer lurks here and used cin but then removed lines. Thanks.

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#38

> The interviewer just lost it. Went on this rant > And he was just plain mad. Uncomfortable mad. Good thing you found this out during the interview. No way you would want to deal with this on a daily basis. That's insane. If the company has an HR department you should consider telling them what happened.

> HR department you should consider telling them what happened. Why? Better you dodge a bullet and GTFO. Don't waste time with telling them what they probably already know.

Fine to dodge the bullet, but please always provide the feedback if possible. It takes minimal effort, and can help avoid the same unpleasant experience happening to others in the future.

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#39
post #6

At least in my experience, no compiler will save you from having to suddenly manage namespaces if you add a dependency mid-project that has namespace collisions. I always use STL functions with the explicit namespace, since I work in the namespace of the code I'm writing by default (to not cause other people problems with collisions down the line). I've seen this done in other projects and thought it was a good pract…

I agree that this is generally good practice, and if the interviewee explained that it was just to dodge problems with making assumptions with a large codebase/build process I would always give them extra points. It almost is telling that the codebase that the interviewer was working in was rather small (not in a negative way) that these stylistic issues didn't fit his current mental model, but such is the way of C++.

Re: Ask HN: Scolded on a job interview for not namespacing

#40
As an interviewer, I generally wouldn't care about style. Unless it was something really strange, in which case I'd probably ask about it to see if there's a good reason for the strange style.

As an interviewee, like others have suggested, this is a serious red flag that you don't want to work there. So, in a way, mission accomplished.

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