How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#31

Post by jillesvangurp » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

vanilla-almond wrote: post #28

jillesvangurp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually a bit of a myth (I'm Dutch). It's more a case of targeting different markets with different price and quality ratios. E.g. Germans love to complain about Dutch water bombs but buy them by the kilo anyway because the stuff is cheap. They don't realize the more expensive varieties also available to them come from the same country. You don't have to buy the cheap ones but they do; it's their poor tastes that ar…

In the UK, supermarket tomatoes imported from The Netherlands are also common. The tomatoes are mostly tasteless, regardless of the variety. Even the premium-priced organic ones have little flavour. That's what modern, mass-produced agriculture gives us: tasteless, low-cost produce all-year round because price mostly trumps other factors for many, if not most, consumers. But it seems that even expensive mass-produced…

The UK used to be infamous for low quality bland food. So, it's not surprising that people tend to buy cheap low quality stuff there. Same in Germany (I live there currently). The quality of the produce in the super markets is quite poor. I recently was in Poland; they seem to have even lower standards/expectations there. Don't blame the Dutch, blame the local food culture (or lack thereof). The premium stuff gets shipped to where it most appreciated.

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#32

Post by Tsubasachan » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 1:50 PM UTC

grenoire wrote: post #17

john_nik wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can concur to this. I have a friend from Italy where he worked during the summers at family farms down south where they produced tomatoes the natural way. Eating tomatoes in Netherlands is like eating paper, he said. The same goes for lettuce. There is no taste and it goes bad/degrades much faster even if you keep it in the refrigerator

One of my biggest complaints about living in the Netherlands is the goddamned tomatoes. Even after seasoning them and trying many different kinds, I just couldn't find one that was like... a tomato, in the way that I know it.

Well as you know tomatoes don't grow naturally in the Netherlands.

The whole thing about Dutch farming is efficiency. Produce vast quantities with minimal manpower or land use. Feeding the world>taste.

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#33

Post by misja » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #22

tbarbugli wrote: post #13

Only problem is that dutch vegetables have no taste and are still insane expensive compared to meat (which is also tasteless). So yeah, awesome thinkering and efficiency here, but quality is not there.

Actually a bit of a myth (I'm Dutch). It's more a case of targeting different markets with different price and quality ratios. E.g. Germans love to complain about Dutch water bombs but buy them by the kilo anyway because the stuff is cheap. They don't realize the more expensive varieties also available to them come from the same country. You don't have to buy the cheap ones but they do; it's their poor tastes that ar…

The reason that Italy imports Dutch tomatoes is probably for using them in tomato sauce and other tomato products.

Italy's export of tomato products is far greater than its raw tomato export: see e.g. http://www.tomatonews.com/en/global-tomato-products-trade-20...

So no, I wouldn't say that Italians like Dutch tomatoes as much as their own.

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#34

Post by chmod775 » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #25

jillesvangurp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually a bit of a myth (I'm Dutch). It's more a case of targeting different markets with different price and quality ratios. E.g. Germans love to complain about Dutch water bombs but buy them by the kilo anyway because the stuff is cheap. They don't realize the more expensive varieties also available to them come from the same country. You don't have to buy the cheap ones but they do; it's their poor tastes that ar…

I wonder if Dutch tomatoes imported to Italy are canned and then branded as "made in Italy"?

That'd be illegal for food, which must state the country of origin.

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#35

Post by userulluipeste » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

"A farm atop a former factory in The Hague produces vegetables and fish in a self-sustaining loop: Fish waste fertilizes plants, which filter the water for the fish."

If people should know something about how diseases & parasites appear and develop is that the existence of exactly this kind of "self-sustaining loop" is the essential part. Even in the outside environment, any given organism bares the risk of taking part in development of a new parasitic creature's life-cycle, but that risk is greatly reduced by having an inconsistent pattern of interaction with other symbiotic creatures. Here the people involved are just asking for it (unless they go out their way to sterilize the substances circulating in that plant-fish loop).

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#36

Post by misja » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

pasta wrote: post #12

What is kind of funny is that people here like to pay more for 'organic' food because they think it's more healthy. But what comes from the greenhouse is so lab-grown it's more healthy than anything. Those labs also don't like to use pesticides because it's unhealthy for the workers and plants as well. They use insects to control pests. The only problem with greenhouse food is that it tastes like nothing. A tomato gr…

It's not the soil but the lack of sun that deprives the tomatoes of their taste.

Greenhouses in the Netherlands are heated with natural gas. The Dutch government subsidises the gas so they can keep their costs low and be competitive. So that's another reason to eat organic food; it is more sustainable because it uses natural sunlight. And tastier as well!

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#37

Post by benj111 » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

chmod775 wrote: post #34

benj111 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Dutch tomatoes imported to Italy are canned and then branded as "made in Italy"?

That'd be illegal for food, which must state the country of origin.

You are probably right in the straight forward example. I'm sure most of the schemes below are legal though.

-"packed in Italy"

-Add herbs and seasoning to the can.

-Process it to pasata.

-Add lots of Italian branding, Italian head office address with "made in EU"

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#38

Post by misja » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

harryf wrote: post #24

jillesvangurp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually a bit of a myth (I'm Dutch). It's more a case of targeting different markets with different price and quality ratios. E.g. Germans love to complain about Dutch water bombs but buy them by the kilo anyway because the stuff is cheap. They don't realize the more expensive varieties also available to them come from the same country. You don't have to buy the cheap ones but they do; it's their poor tastes that ar…

The other problem is the Netherlands are at risk of getting wiped out by rising sea levels. Your example of Italy is bad news - in effect countries that could produce their own are buying Dutch because it’s cheaper, presumably because economies of scale now work in Holland’s favor. In other words we depend on a country that’s at risk of being wiped out by flooding for food _and_ that same countrys dominant market pos…

This is a myth. Despite the global warming, Dutch sea level rising has not accelerated. See e.g. https://www.clo.nl/en/indicators/en0229-sea-level-dutch-coas...

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#39

Post by vram22 » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

pasta wrote: post #12

What is kind of funny is that people here like to pay more for 'organic' food because they think it's more healthy. But what comes from the greenhouse is so lab-grown it's more healthy than anything. Those labs also don't like to use pesticides because it's unhealthy for the workers and plants as well. They use insects to control pests. The only problem with greenhouse food is that it tastes like nothing. A tomato gr…

>A tomato grown on soil has much more taste than grown on water.

You mean they use hydroponics?

Re: How the Netherlands Feeds the World (2017)

#40

Post by gattr » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 3:04 PM UTC

Impressive, to be sure, especially the technical side of things.

However I really dislike greenhouses like these for the huge amount of light pollution they cause (speaking as an amateur astronomer). Sure, it probably doesn't matter much in a densely populated area like the Netherlands, but they start to also pop up here in Eastern Europe, in (previously-) dark-sky locations.