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It’s probably time to learn Chinese

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Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#31
post #3

Hate to be a naysayer but I disagree. English is used in international dealings and is spoken in a very large number of countries due to the british empire's wide reach and influence compounded by americas dominance after WW2. Mandarin is a great language to learn in as much as Japanese,French and German are. Japan has long had a strong economy and exports a large number of goods,same with France and Germany except t…

50 years from now, Mandarin will be much more useful than Arabic or French, because it will be the largest market in the world. If you deal with China professionally, knowing Mandarin will be an advantage.

Largest market you cant sell to, unless you manufacture locally in a joint venture majority owned by someone connected to the ruling party.

Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only that mandarin may open up a world of 1.2 billion people, a whole universe to explore. The case with japanese is a great one tho! Japan is way more advanced and still a huge place to learn about, and although it has less population, its way more relatable and maybe even more practical.

> Only that mandarin may open up a world of 1.2 billion people, a whole universe to explore. Just that they're all from the same country mostly. Going by raw numbers isn't a good metric here. Something like "number of countries or cultures where you can communicate with the average person using that language" would be a better fit, and this is where English will probably still be king for a long time.

Its not about replacing english but why not pick it as a second language?

Even japan doesnt speak english very well: when I was there almost nobody spoke well enough for a conversation. And japan is obsessed with english as well!

Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only that mandarin may open up a world of 1.2 billion people, a whole universe to explore. Just that they're all from the same country mostly. Going by raw numbers isn't a good metric here. Something like "number of countries or cultures where you can communicate with the average person using that language" would be a better fit, and this is where English will probably still be king for a long time.

Its not about replacing english but why not pick it as a second language? Even japan doesnt speak english very well: when I was there almost nobody spoke well enough for a conversation. And japan is obsessed with english as well!

Sure, if it's just about broadening your mind picking a language that's far away from yours is the best choice. But considering China's importance as a potential market it's probably not relevant for you as a tech person, but rather for your company's sales people and decision makers. And even then, China's English skills are probably only getting better over time.

My experience regarding English in Asia was similar to yours. Actually I feel like China is doing slightly better regarding English. The average college student there is able to have simple conversation. In Japan, most struggled to express the most basic things. Obviously, outside of these circles you're completely lost in both counties. Except this odd experience in one McDonald's in Beijing where they had one lady on staff that spoke perfect English. I don't know if China is putting more emphasis on teaching English, or it's because more Chinese students spend time abroad (not just in absolute numbers obviously).

Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#34

I have been living in Asia for 8years and I have learned Chinese. Initially because i thought it would help me to thrive professionally in Asia. I am happy I learned Chinese, however I wished I had done it for the right reasons. i.e to do something intellectually interesting. Professionally, your time is way better invested in learning a tech skill, developing a business or expanding your network. Those are the thing…

I disagree with this statement

If you live in heavily populated Asian communities, there are a lot of business oppurtunities, specifically in Mandarin. For instance, a law firm specialized in one ethnicity. You'll find a lot of well off wealthy Chinese clients coming overseas starting businesses in America. Controversally, if you do any overseas importing, you'll have a larger selection of manufacturers to work with if you speak Mandarin.

I don't speak Mandarin all that well though, granted I speak Cantonese and studied 3 years of Japanese. I do agree that your time is better spent learning a tech skill though.

Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within 5 years India will overtake China as the world’s most populated country, and Africa is expected to reach 4 billion by the end of the century. China’s moment is now, not 50 years from now.

Africa is not a country.

Where would you rather live and work: a random African country, or China? Does this answer change in 50 years?

Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#36

I disagree with this article (and I've spent 8 years learning Mandarin part-time). English is far more valuable in business and scientific contexts, and the cost of becoming proficient in Mandarin is considerable (1000s of hours before it's useful in a non-trivial way). And I expect things to remain that way within the next 100 years. Mandarin + English is not a very distinctive skillset: you're competing with millio…

Haha Chinese is my second language. With Vietnamese or Chinese, you need "absolute pitch" to be able to speak it like natives when learning as an adult.

China/Vietnam have higher proportion of people with absolute pitch.

It has to do with the number of phonemes in a language.

There is also a genetic aspect of it. Mandarin speakers will have higher IQ than normal population.

Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China will pass the US as the largest market within five years so what I'm saying is certain to happen. Sure, as a regular boring American 9-5er you won't need it but if you want something more from life you better learn a language and Mandarin is objectively going to be the most useful.

Mandarin is objectively going to be the most useful I'm not sure what you mean by this. It's the language with the most speakers, maybe? It's the one you think would give the greatest money-making advantage? There are many other ways you could decide which is most useful, e.g. language spoken in the most countries, but 'objectively most useful' depends on a lot of unmentioned things (Useful for what?) and seems a fai…

That's a very interesting point. The reason that languages spoken in more countries matters is because there's more room for experimentation. Not to mention more need due to multiple bureaucracies, less streamlined arrangements. Many Europeans suggest to me that Europe was great when each nation was competing, rather than attempting to collaborate. You lose something when you unify. China is very unified in this sense. Yet I think it's also fair to say that the era of nation-state experimentation has already either bore its fruits (or not). We've had hundreds of years of modern states to find their way, the majority (but not all) with a conducive culture to economic success have already achieved it. The top 10 GDP list is almost always consisting of European nations, (Pan-)American nations, India from West Asia and much of Northeast Asia.

Of course, many countries are encouraging English learning, and I think a lot of former French colonies are interested in moving towards English, but after English (59 countries), there is French (29), Arabic (26), Spanish (20), and Portuguese (9). Some of my best friends are "Arabic" speakers, and they're from the heart of the land (Saudi Arabia) and tell me there is not a single "Arabic" language that all nations can entirely mutually understand, so I'm convinced of the validity of that one entirely. Spanish and Portuguese nations definitely have mutual intelligibility and seem very steadfast in maintaining their languages.

I would agree with your general point for sure that an unflinching statement like "Mandarin is objectively going to be the most useful" is more of a flimsy limb, given more information and taking looks from additional perspectives.

If I had to bet my life on a language being the "most useful" going forward, I'm putting my hide on English. I think if Mandarin being most useful were true, it would already be an unquestionable statement today. Not sure how an already mostly-risen power like China has one of it's two languages (and not the one spoken in Hong Kong) become "more useful" tomorrow than it is today, and it's not an especially useful language right now outside of China. I wouldn't even venture to say it's #2 by many metrics.

China and it's official language, Mandarin, have a lot of hype about domination and influence, considering it's a relatively insular culture. Flat statements on the Mandarin topic are tough to swallow. My guess is outside of government interactions, Chinese business will place Chinese management and even Chinese workers in their enterprises, if at all possible[0]. They won't need John Doe to speak Mandarin, nor will that person really even be desirable. Those people are learning English and they prefer their own.

[0]https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/06/absolute-fraud-...

Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#38
Investments of Chinese capital outside Chine are now greater than the foreign investments coming into China. If you're going to work in the US or Europe in a local branch of a Chinese global company, speaking Chinese should be a big advantage, esp. when moving up the chain of command.

Re: It’s probably time to learn Chinese

#39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Africa is not a country.

Where would you rather live and work: a random African country, or China? Does this answer change in 50 years?

Most people are going to think because China is more advanced in ways, or some sort of admiration for Chinese history and ethnic creations, that the obvious answer is China. I would disagree. Outside of a few war-torn failed states, a random African country for me.

Not as many stories about people jumping out of factory windows to end their lives in Africa. There are many hidden gems in Africa as well with perfect climates and cultures that have little to no thievery or need for distrust. These things aren't well-known or stereotypical because Africa is dismissed outright so quickly by so many without further investigation, but it's true anyway.

In 50 years, I think this will remain true and Africa becomes even more desirable yet than China. If you want to work, or want your less fortunate children to work at Foxconn pumping out iPhones with management practices that westerners cannot even imagine at this point in their history, China may be an option if they'd even welcome you. Of course everyone assumes they'll be the boss at the desk browsing HN or scrolling through Facebook during the workday instead, generally enjoying the good life.

Africa. This isn't even a contest.

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