Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost • Hacker News Board

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#31

Post by CiPHPerCoder » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

This is cowardice. Rational cowardice, perhaps, but still cowardice nonetheless.

> “Some men have voiced concerns to me that a false accusation is what they fear,” said Zweig, the lawyer. “These men fear what they cannot control.”

This reveals so much about the mentality of the people being interviewed.

The statistics of false rape accusations do not justify this concern. I would expect that an industry that copes with risk as part of their job to understand this.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180101025446/https://icdv.idah...

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#32

Post by neaden » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

cwmma wrote: post #18

madengr wrote: post #8

Nothing new. A professor I had 25 years ago would always keep the door open if he had a female student during office hours.

Boy scouts have been doing this for decades, the rule was you were never to be alone with an adult you weren't related to.

Every organization I've volunteered with that works with minors, including BSA, has that rule. It's sadly necessary.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#33

Post by thenayr » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

bussierem wrote: post #12

danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

When there have already been numerous well-documented instances of people making false accusations that absolutely RUIN THE LIVES of the defendants, it can hardly be a surprise that people with a lot to lose would take drastic, if ill-though-out, measures to protect themselves from that possibility. As another comment said, even when the false accusations are found to be false, it's usually too late for the defendant…

Would love it if you would provide one high profile instance of this occurring

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#34

Post by snackbugs » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #9

falcolas wrote: post #2

Personal opinion - the lack of a "innocent until proven guilty" judicial system when it comes to sexual harassment claims is what has caused much of the fear of women. Colleges, businesses, and online communities almost always simply believe the victim, and even if a trial should occur and the accused is vindicated, the accused has already been fired, expelled, or crucified by public opinion. The records of the accus…

Really, employers, universities, etc. should not even be involved in these kinds of claims. They are not competent to investigate them. If a crime has been committed, there is a judicial system that can and will deal with that, with established standards regarding presumption of innocence and burden of proof.

With such disproportionately high rates of domestic abuse in law enforcement professions, you really can't say they are competent to investigate them either. So whose responsibility is it?

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Police-domestic-viole...

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#35

Post by buboard » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

I see a potential opportunity for gay managers here.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#36

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

danesparza wrote: post #23

bussierem wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there have already been numerous well-documented instances of people making false accusations that absolutely RUIN THE LIVES of the defendants, it can hardly be a surprise that people with a lot to lose would take drastic, if ill-though-out, measures to protect themselves from that possibility. As another comment said, even when the false accusations are found to be false, it's usually too late for the defendant…

Numerous? Well-documented? I don't mean to be inflammatory -- but I must reading different news that you are. Can you please cite your sources? To be clear: Numerous (to me) means approaching 20% of all accusations. That's only 1 in every 5 accusations. Does numerous mean something else to you?

[deleted]

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#37

Post by danesparza » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #10

danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

It's just common sense for people to protect their future/careers. And it's not just men that think that way - from the article: > A late-40-something in private equity said he has a new rule, established on the advice of his wife, an attorney: no business dinner with a woman 35 or younger.

Yeah. That's good advice ... because (#metoo movement aside) WHO HAS "BUSINESS" DINNERS ALONE WITH MARRIED PEOPLE?

This is something completely different than having dinner with a group of people.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#38

Post by hodgesrm » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

> Finally, he landed on the solution: “Just try not to be an asshole.”

It's kind of astonishing how long it takes some people see this obvious answer.

Expert hint: It also solves a lot of other workplace issues as well.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#39

Post by netcan » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #2

Personal opinion - the lack of a "innocent until proven guilty" judicial system when it comes to sexual harassment claims is what has caused much of the fear of women. Colleges, businesses, and online communities almost always simply believe the victim, and even if a trial should occur and the accused is vindicated, the accused has already been fired, expelled, or crucified by public opinion. The records of the accus…

We never really had "innocent until proven guilty" in these circumstances. Legally sure, but courts have little involvement even now.

Until recently, the women/victim side was assumed guilty... still are in many places/circumstances.

We're leaving judge and jury duty to the public, social media, old media, individuals and (above all) corporate policy. None of these operate on a presumption of innocence.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#40

Post by thenayr » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #31

This is cowardice. Rational cowardice, perhaps, but still cowardice nonetheless. > “Some men have voiced concerns to me that a false accusation is what they fear,” said Zweig, the lawyer. “These men fear what they cannot control.” This reveals so much about the mentality of the people being interviewed. The statistics of false rape accusations do not justify this concern. I would expect that an industry that copes wi…

More like "these men have probably done some fucked up things that they don't want uncovered and now realize they are at risk of being exposed".