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One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

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Re: One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

#31

Post by prepend »

consp wrote: post #19
EMRZ wrote: post #16

Sorry if i don't understand this totally, but why is scraping for pdf and ppt/pptx files and mirroring them illegal? If you can reach that files just scraping it means they are somehow open to public access. No joke, i am genuinely asking.

Scraping, mostly no. Using them to make profit: yes. Since you then violate the copyright of the author as the original action was solely to make it public (assuming no profit was intended). edit: Rehosting is not allowed as far as I know in Dutch law if you are attempting to make profit of it by not requesting it from the original owner. Rehosting it and not taking advantage and linking to the original article is al…

If a file is available through non-auth http it’s unclear what the copyright is. I think it depends on the particular item whether copyright was violated.

Making a file public without restriction doesn’t mean another can’t make profit (my ISP makes a profit by transmitting the file to me; gmail makes profit when I email the file to me; google makes a profit when they cache the file; archive makes a profit when they archive a file; etc etc).

I think if this were non-public docs then the case is clearer. But by releasing a document publicly with unlimited access via URL the author explicitly allows unlimited distribution (and due to the nature of tcp/ip redistribution). If an author wants to restrict distribution then they should restrict distribution using available protocols.

Re: One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

#32

Post by jerrre »

RoryH wrote: post #23
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #7

Who in their right mind puts their real whois information online? On my urls, all that's real is the email address. I applaud Vladimir Nesterenko for making money like this.

How much time did this guy save people by providing the content quickly and easily to users? I say fair game to Vladimir for his innovation.

Did you read the description of the downloading process? If content discovery was the goal he could've just linked to the source

Re: One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

#33

Post by prepend »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #27
whatshisface wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no telling whether or not that's his real name. Edit: as a commenter below pointed out, just because a person with a name lives at an address, they may not run a website that they're listed as running. After all you probably live at an address, and if I was a fraudster I could list you.

Except that if you read the article the reporters confirmed that a guy by that name lived at that apartment complex by asking the neighbors. There’s no guarantee that the person who registered is actually the person who lives there but someone answers to that name at the address provided apparently.

Again, I wouldn’t be so sure. It’s a useful practice to use real people’s info for precisely situations like this.

Step 1) register foo.com Step 2) make email address John.doe@foo.com Step 3) register bar.com using John.doe@foo.com as contact info. Include contact info for John Doe with a real address and random phone number

This meets Whois requirements and makes it a bit harder for any real lookups. It’s easier than providing wholly fake info because journalists will Lee dogging. When journalists contact John Doe who denies owning bar.com then they will work it like an uncooperative subject.

Re: One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

#34

Post by topoftheforts »

consp wrote: post #15
shakna wrote: post #6

> According to another source, a public address book at locatefamily.com, someone under the name Vladimir S. Nesterenko is living at [REDACTED] in Moscow. Vladimir lives according to Google Streetview it’s an apartment complex far away from the Moscow city center... Really? Someone investigating with journalists, and may be considered a journalists themselves (?), actually publishes the address of someone that they a…

The site in question (locatefamily.com) is known for scraping public information. I'm very doubtful anyone did anything wrong here, tough it is questionable data to say the least. Morally questionable maybe, though I'm going full circle and going to say scamming is as well. edit: The name was posted in public whois info. That basically means you handed out your data to the public anyway. Everyone on this forum would…

That's not a justification at all. Just to give you an example: UK company addresses are open to the public, and easily accessible through the government website. Many UK internet personalities have set up a company, and for many of them it's their house address (cause either they don't know about the register or they don't care enough).

Would it be ok for me to make a blog post with their home address on it, just because it's publicly available? I don't think so, even if they did something scammy.

Re: One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

#35

Post by Traubenfuchs »

prepend wrote: post #33
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that if you read the article the reporters confirmed that a guy by that name lived at that apartment complex by asking the neighbors. There’s no guarantee that the person who registered is actually the person who lives there but someone answers to that name at the address provided apparently.

Again, I wouldn’t be so sure. It’s a useful practice to use real people’s info for precisely situations like this. Step 1) register foo.com Step 2) make email address John.doe@foo.com Step 3) register bar.com using John.doe@foo.com as contact info. Include contact info for John Doe with a real address and random phone number This meets Whois requirements and makes it a bit harder for any real lookups. It’s easier tha…

> Whois requirements

Are there any? My street name is literally "private" and my phone number "000..." or something like that.

Re: One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

#36

Post by consp »

prepend wrote: post #31
consp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scraping, mostly no. Using them to make profit: yes. Since you then violate the copyright of the author as the original action was solely to make it public (assuming no profit was intended). edit: Rehosting is not allowed as far as I know in Dutch law if you are attempting to make profit of it by not requesting it from the original owner. Rehosting it and not taking advantage and linking to the original article is al…

If a file is available through non-auth http it’s unclear what the copyright is. I think it depends on the particular item whether copyright was violated. Making a file public without restriction doesn’t mean another can’t make profit (my ISP makes a profit by transmitting the file to me; gmail makes profit when I email the file to me; google makes a profit when they cache the file; archive makes a profit when they a…

Since the article contained some private Dutch governmental documents, I think you are correct to state the last case (some non-public). Though if the are public, reselling them (or making profit as a side business) without referring to the original document is problematic at best, illegal at worst. There are plenty of sites who reference or even quote published documents from the overheid.nl (goverment) websites and make profit from them, but not by copying them without reference. Though they all serve some legitimate purpose and you can actually download them instead of having to click though quizzes and other annoying things in the hope you will click one advertisement.

Re: One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

#37

Post by consp »

topoftheforts wrote: post #34
consp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The site in question (locatefamily.com) is known for scraping public information. I'm very doubtful anyone did anything wrong here, tough it is questionable data to say the least. Morally questionable maybe, though I'm going full circle and going to say scamming is as well. edit: The name was posted in public whois info. That basically means you handed out your data to the public anyway. Everyone on this forum would…

That's not a justification at all. Just to give you an example: UK company addresses are open to the public, and easily accessible through the government website. Many UK internet personalities have set up a company, and for many of them it's their house address (cause either they don't know about the register or they don't care enough). Would it be ok for me to make a blog post with their home address on it, just be…

Original text removed as I already stated below it was wrong but people keep complaining.

Apparently it is illegal since the start of this year (in the Netherlands, as it is where the article is from) since may 2018 as the new AVG went into effect and it is considered personal data which requires approval for publishing.

Re: One of the world’s most visited websites that nobody is aware of (2017)

#39

Post by dangero »

I wonder if this article ended up improving search ranking and revenues for the creator. Another form of automated seo generation I see is youtube users that scrape images and 3rd party news articles then convert them into a video with a slide show and overlayed text to speech. Curious what their ad revenue looks like. I assume a bot does all the work and creates thousands of videos using that approach per day.
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