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The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

nytimes.com

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Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#31

Post by tynpeddler »

vtange wrote: post #21
hirundo wrote: post #18

> All men are created equal. - U.S. Declaration of Independence The above statement is false. That's more clear than ever and geno-economics contributes to that clarity. If you live your life by this assumption you will get many important things wrong. Yet this clearly wrong statement, as applied to the operation of the rule of law, is also one of the most brilliant, important and useful concepts invented by civiliza…

That line is taken out of context a lot - the Declaration of Independence does not try to assert that all humans are equal in ability, its main focus was to state that all humans have equal rights to their life, liberty and freedom to pursue happiness. That means that even if a human is weaker, or even disabled, he or she still has equal rights to a human who is in good health.

Yes and no. Classical liberalism uses the assumed equality of all people to argue that the people are capable of and ought to engage in self rule. If by some miracle of science we can prove that this presumed equality is mostly false, then you can begin to attack the fundamental justification for self rule. There is a lot of complexity here (for example, what does it even mean for for a disabled person to have an equal right to good health?) and this discussion could go for days, but assumed equality is a huge foundational point for classical liberalism.

Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#32

Post by searine »

nonbel wrote: post #27

Combining GWAS data with social science... sounds like a recipe for generating incorrect conclusions from noise to me. >"before the Human Genome Project had fully sequenced human DNA" The human genome is still not complete by any normal definition, they just redefined "complete" to mean "we did our best". It is like if someone turns in homework with only half the questions answered and argues they should get 100% sin…

>The human genome is still not complete by any normal definition

Well considering that the human genome is a moving target, it can never be "complete". However, it can be 99.9% complete, which is all but complete for all scientific intents and purposes. The rest is just semantics.

Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#33

Post by dahfizz »

asianthrowaway wrote: post #28
osazuwa wrote: post #14

Boy I can't wait for Eugenics 2.0! I'm sure it will be better the second time around.

Hypothetical situation: if there was devised a cheap and easy to administer "genetic IQ test", would you oppose an NGO whose mission statement would be to administer this test to low income inner city kids, and offer scholarships or vouchers to good schools to those exhibiting the highest "genetic IQ"?

I mean this is basically done now, but with standardized testing as a proxy for what a "genetic IQ" would measure better.

That said, I don't think it will ever catch on because the associations with eugenics and the like is too strong.

Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#34

Post by coldtea »

hirundo wrote: post #18

> All men are created equal. - U.S. Declaration of Independence The above statement is false. That's more clear than ever and geno-economics contributes to that clarity. If you live your life by this assumption you will get many important things wrong. Yet this clearly wrong statement, as applied to the operation of the rule of law, is also one of the most brilliant, important and useful concepts invented by civiliza…

>The above statement is false. That's more clear than ever and geno-economics contributes to that clarity. If you live your life by this assumption you will get many important things wrong.

"It's bad to kill people" -- this statement is also false. There's no logical necessity that says its bad to kill people, it's only a utility calculation (whether you get caught, what the profit will be vs repercussions etc).

Still if you don't live your life by this assumption (that killing people is bad) you will get many important things wrong.

The basic moral imperatives should not be based on them being objectively true, but on what kind of world we want to live in.

"All men are created equal" doesn't mean "everybody is as tall" or "as strong" or "as smart". Obviously those who wrote it knew that already. It also doesn't mean a person without qualifications should get to work as a doctor just as well as someone with a M.D. diploma. They knew that too.

It just means that all people are equally worth, not to some utility function, but absolutely as human beings.

Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#35

Post by coldtea »

asianthrowaway wrote: post #28
osazuwa wrote: post #14

Boy I can't wait for Eugenics 2.0! I'm sure it will be better the second time around.

Hypothetical situation: if there was devised a cheap and easy to administer "genetic IQ test", would you oppose an NGO whose mission statement would be to administer this test to low income inner city kids, and offer scholarships or vouchers to good schools to those exhibiting the highest "genetic IQ"?

Yes. Who said those with the highest IQ should be educated with priority?

If anything, those with lowest IQs could use quality education some more...

Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#37

Post by nwsm »

pault wrote: post #30
you_owe_me wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I was born ugly, so bring on genetic enhancement

I'm not sure if you're joking or not (it did make me chuckle), but as dystopian as it sounds, I would prefer to live in a world where everyone is beautiful, since it would eliminate barriers for less attractive folks, and eliminate advantages for the more attractive ones. Of course, if we do ever learn how to change our physical appearance with genetics, the fashion industry will just change the definition of "beauti…

Haven't you seen The Fairly OddParents S1E12 "The Same Game"?

Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#38

Post by openasocket »

asianthrowaway wrote: post #28
osazuwa wrote: post #14

Boy I can't wait for Eugenics 2.0! I'm sure it will be better the second time around.

Hypothetical situation: if there was devised a cheap and easy to administer "genetic IQ test", would you oppose an NGO whose mission statement would be to administer this test to low income inner city kids, and offer scholarships or vouchers to good schools to those exhibiting the highest "genetic IQ"?

I reject the premise: I don't think it is possible to predict intelligence accurately from DNA. While some degree of intelligence is heritable, perhaps even a substantial degree, environmental factors still play a big role in intelligence. A poor prenatal environment, malnutrition, toxins like lead, and disease all negatively impact intelligence, none of which you could measure or account for from just DNA.

But let's suppose this hypothetical test also accounts for environmental factors, and it can even calculate what the child's future intelligence would be based on how much financial support is provided. I don't think such a thing is actually possible, but I won't fight the hypothetical. Then I would say to allocate the money to provide the best net increase in intelligence: prioritize those with the most IQ points gained per dollar. I'd rather get 10 kids from 80 IQ to 100 IQ than 1 kid from 80 IQ to 140 IQ.

Though I think you'll find that, if the goal is improving the intelligence of the average population, putting funds into prenatal care and lead abatement programs will probably have the same impact for a lot less money than college scholarships.

Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#39

Post by [deleted] »

searine wrote: post #32
nonbel wrote: post #27

Combining GWAS data with social science... sounds like a recipe for generating incorrect conclusions from noise to me. >"before the Human Genome Project had fully sequenced human DNA" The human genome is still not complete by any normal definition, they just redefined "complete" to mean "we did our best". It is like if someone turns in homework with only half the questions answered and argues they should get 100% sin…

>The human genome is still not complete by any normal definition Well considering that the human genome is a moving target, it can never be "complete". However, it can be 99.9% complete, which is all but complete for all scientific intents and purposes. The rest is just semantics.

[deleted]

Re: The ‘Geno-Economists’ Say DNA Can Predict Our Chances of Success

#40

Post by fjsolwmv »

vtange wrote: post #21
hirundo wrote: post #18

> All men are created equal. - U.S. Declaration of Independence The above statement is false. That's more clear than ever and geno-economics contributes to that clarity. If you live your life by this assumption you will get many important things wrong. Yet this clearly wrong statement, as applied to the operation of the rule of law, is also one of the most brilliant, important and useful concepts invented by civiliza…

That line is taken out of context a lot - the Declaration of Independence does not try to assert that all humans are equal in ability, its main focus was to state that all humans have equal rights to their life, liberty and freedom to pursue happiness. That means that even if a human is weaker, or even disabled, he or she still has equal rights to a human who is in good health.

But not if they were "nonhuman savages" that were roughly human shaped but not Western European in skin tone.
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