31–40 of 82 posts
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Presumably this is somewhat similar to other native american tribes where there are treaties and legal structures that allow them to make their case under that name / formalized what it means today?
The autonomy and sovereignty of continental tribes is severely curtailed by the US claim of plenary authority over them. They are independent nations largely in name only.
The actual legal issues in question are barely touched on in the article: > But some environmentalists and Native Hawaiian groups say the spread of observatories on the summit has polluted the mountain, interfering with traditional cultural and religious practices, or are actually infringing on the sovereignty of the Hawaiian kingdom. The links in the article to the actual decisions are broken (for me at least) The a…
> infringing on the sovereignty of the Hawaiian kingdom Is there actually any legally recognized sovereignty for Hawaii or native Hawaiians? Tried doing a quick search but it all came back with an ongoing sovereignty movement but nothing similar to the Native American tribes.
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I think that since it didn't voluntarily surrender its sovereignty, some might feel it should still have it, but I don't know too much about the subject, so maybe it's time for me to read up a bit.
You hit the nail on the head. The stuff about pollution and interruption of cultural practices is more about the idea that those things are being forced upon native Hawaiians, much like annexation was. Not all native Hawaiians feel this way about the telescopes, but the ones that do are the ones protesting.
Plus some other tribal folks from the rest of the US showed up to protest. I'm glad this was posted, now I know what the heck they were talking about when the relatives used the phrase "going to Hawaii to protest a volcano". I was a bit confused.
>Thirty Meter astronomers had said if they didn’t get a green light to build on Mauna Kea, they would build it on La Palma in the Canary Islands, off Africa. Good for them
Mauna Kea is 6000 ft higher though.
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Well, yes, that's the issue at hand. Probably legally you're just as correct as that issue recently where a bunch of tourists were stomping all over some hills that were sacred to Australian aborigines, but according to the Australian government were legal hiking paths. The most, legally, the aborigines could do was put up a sign saying "these hills are important to us for religious, please don't walk on them." There…
> don't like this because I think seizing via violence is fucked As you acknowledge in the next paragraph, it’s not like Native Americans weren’t seizing land from each other by violence. So what good does it do to write off the primary ways in which land is acquired in the absence of any applicable legal process?
Does bring up a good point though - are the borders of most countries now "locked in?" Perhaps. Federations might form / break apart, which could shift around "sovereign territory." Like, imagine the EU consolidating, or the USA splitting.
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Thanks, that phrase, > or are actually infringing on the sovereignty of the Hawaiian kingdom made no sense to me, given that the Hawaiian Kingdom hasn't been a sovereign entity for 125 years.
I think that since it didn't voluntarily surrender its sovereignty, some might feel it should still have it, but I don't know too much about the subject, so maybe it's time for me to read up a bit.
And for what it's worth I saw more Kingdom of Hawaii flags than any other.
On a side note I could move there tomorrow and take up surfing. So anybody willing to have a remote engineer working on Hawaii time just let me know...
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Mauna Kea is 6000 ft higher though.
Altitude is not everything, and higher altitude does not automatically translate into better performance of the instrument. There are many, many factors that matter, including light pollution, transparency, cloud cover, air turbulence, jet streams, etc.
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Altitude is not everything, and higher altitude does not automatically translate into better performance of the instrument. There are many, many factors that matter, including light pollution, transparency, cloud cover, air turbulence, jet streams, etc.
A report by the Canadian Astronomical Society (Canada has a ~15% stake) found that with taking all these variables into play, Mauna Kea is still the best site for TMT. See page 35 for the final recomendations: http://casca.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/CATAC-Report-Fina...
[1]: http://casca.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/CATAC-Report-Fina...