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Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

theguardian.com

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Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#31

Post by cmrdporcupine »

slacka wrote: post #23
tomp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work in practice though? Monsanto's RoundUp hasn't been getting rave reviews lately ...

Why are you conflating RoundUp (NOT even a pesticide) with all GMOs? Attacking GMO technology because of one company's misuse is like attacking electricity because of the electric chair. We're talking about replacing pesticides. Monsanto is in the business of selling herbicides and pesticides, so of course they're not going to use the tech to neuter their profits. If anything they are benefiting from the negative pre…

RoundUp is a pesticide. Glyphosate. A herbicide.

Maybe you mean "RoundUp Ready?"

The actual real world of GMO, the stuff that is actually marketed and sold -- it's like 90% about herbicide resistance, nothing else.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#32

Post by Nasrudith »

The autism link appears very dubious and casts doubt on everything else - it doesn't map to organophosphate usage in the timeline and frankly it shows heavy signs of being genetic. Not to mention if the effects are that strong organic fanatics should show significant differences in performance - but that doesn't seem to be the case. While I doubt that even the still used organophosphates are healthy to be exposed to this has smells of poor science.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#33

Post by aethertap »

dragontamer wrote: post #10
chabes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic farmers don’t use them

"Organic" Farmers aren't very well defined unfortunately. They do use pesticides, but "organic" ones. The overriding pattern is that "Organic" farmers use stuff that is all natural. (for some... fuzzy... definition of all natural) But we all know that Rattlesnake venom is 100% organic and all natural. So I'm personally not sure if the distinction between "synthetic" and "organic" is very appropriate. Nature can certa…

Slightly tangential, but regarding the definition of "natural," I personally prefer to think in terms of concentrates. The chemicals in question exist in nature in many cases, or at least there is a similar naturally occurring compound. The main thing that I think makes a useful distinction is the concentration level. Like other drugs, the danger is in the dose, and the extreme levels of potency we can get with a little chemistry is what makes them "natural" or "synthetic" in my opinion (regardless of their actual origin). I'm more cautious accepting highly concentrated substances than I am accepting the same thing diluted with the thousands of other naturally occurring substances that accompany it "in the wild."

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#34

Post by maxxxxx »

vixen99 wrote: post #26
maxxxxx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there will be a time in the future when we'll look back and think how crazy people were in 2018 pumping all kinds of known toxins into the environment. It will probably be the same incredulity we have when we look at people using radium toothpaste in 1920 or the mad hatters working with mercury the whole day and going crazy.

Or in 2050, wondering why in 2018, mercury amalgam (Hg is an established neurotoxin) was still in significant use (except in Norway, Sweden and Denmark) as a dental filler.

Agreed.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#35

Post by gepi79 »

ptero wrote: post #18
dragontamer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

I do not agree with the current bout of GMO scaremongering, but I think your first sentence is off the mark. I heard from the friends on the biotech side (and sorry, do not have a citation) that many current GMO cultures are engineered specifically for high pesticide tolerance so farms can pump in pesticides to kill all other flora and fauna without killing specific crops. So, GMO good (or allows for significant bene…

That is the problem with GMO. It is a useless word.

It is important to know what is done and where the GMO is used: In some container or open air or open water.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#36

Post by throwaway5752 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #31
slacka wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you conflating RoundUp (NOT even a pesticide) with all GMOs? Attacking GMO technology because of one company's misuse is like attacking electricity because of the electric chair. We're talking about replacing pesticides. Monsanto is in the business of selling herbicides and pesticides, so of course they're not going to use the tech to neuter their profits. If anything they are benefiting from the negative pre…

RoundUp is a pesticide. Glyphosate. A herbicide. Maybe you mean "RoundUp Ready?" The actual real world of GMO, the stuff that is actually marketed and sold -- it's like 90% about herbicide resistance, nothing else.

RoundUp is the trade name for glyphosate, which is an herbicide, not a pesticide. RoundUp Ready is the trade name for glyphosate-resistant strains of crops. RoundUp and RoundUp Ready are both copyrights of Monsanto.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#37

Post by chabes »

slacka wrote: post #23
tomp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work in practice though? Monsanto's RoundUp hasn't been getting rave reviews lately ...

Why are you conflating RoundUp (NOT even a pesticide) with all GMOs? Attacking GMO technology because of one company's misuse is like attacking electricity because of the electric chair. We're talking about replacing pesticides. Monsanto is in the business of selling herbicides and pesticides, so of course they're not going to use the tech to neuter their profits. If anything they are benefiting from the negative pre…

Herbicides are pesticides. You’re probably thinking of insecticides..

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#38

Post by chabes »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #36
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RoundUp is a pesticide. Glyphosate. A herbicide. Maybe you mean "RoundUp Ready?" The actual real world of GMO, the stuff that is actually marketed and sold -- it's like 90% about herbicide resistance, nothing else.

RoundUp is the trade name for glyphosate, which is an herbicide, not a pesticide. RoundUp Ready is the trade name for glyphosate-resistant strains of crops. RoundUp and RoundUp Ready are both copyrights of Monsanto.

Herbicides are technically a class of pesticides

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#39

Post by chabes »

dragontamer wrote: post #10
chabes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic farmers don’t use them

"Organic" Farmers aren't very well defined unfortunately. They do use pesticides, but "organic" ones. The overriding pattern is that "Organic" farmers use stuff that is all natural. (for some... fuzzy... definition of all natural) But we all know that Rattlesnake venom is 100% organic and all natural. So I'm personally not sure if the distinction between "synthetic" and "organic" is very appropriate. Nature can certa…

Organic farmers don’t use organophosphates

There is a big difference between organic and conventional pesticides.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#40

Post by amanaplanacanal »

vixen99 wrote: post #26
maxxxxx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there will be a time in the future when we'll look back and think how crazy people were in 2018 pumping all kinds of known toxins into the environment. It will probably be the same incredulity we have when we look at people using radium toothpaste in 1920 or the mad hatters working with mercury the whole day and going crazy.

Or in 2050, wondering why in 2018, mercury amalgam (Hg is an established neurotoxin) was still in significant use (except in Norway, Sweden and Denmark) as a dental filler.

Other people appear to be down-voting you, so I'll comment instead: The standard defense is that the mercury is locked in place inside the amalgam, and does not migrate. I've never looked at the evidence either way.
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