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Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

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Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#31

Post by pjmlp »

sametmax wrote: post #14
Majestic121 wrote: post #3

"Experimental Nvidia support has been deprecated since its inception, and has now been removed entirely. Please use nouveau and consider future purchases from GPU vendors that support open source. Other proprietary drivers are also unsupported." How is nouveau doing this days compared to the proprietary drivers of NVidia ?

Imagine a world where Gnome doesn't support any proprietary card drivers, where VLC can't read non open codecs, where libre office can't open doc* files... Does that seems like a world where FOSS can be successful in ?

Haven't you seen how largely successful Linux desktops are among common users, outside the ChromeOS and Android variants?

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#32

Post by sametmax »

boudin wrote: post #30
sametmax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world where Gnome doesn't support any proprietary card drivers, where VLC can't read non open codecs, where libre office can't open doc* files... Does that seems like a world where FOSS can be successful in ?

The issue isn't as much of proprietary drivers as nvidia not wanting to implement GBM in their drivers as it's supposed to for wayland support and pushing for EGL streams. It means that people writing wayland compositors have to write a EGL stream version because of a purely one-sided nvidia decision. EGL Stream support in Mutter (gnome) is supported a bit by Nvidia but that's it. Between spending time on improving a…

Do you know how much special cases there are in all FOSS to accomodate the bad decisions of the rest of the world ?

Just look at the ifdef in the Python source code to make it cross plateform, it's insane.

But it's what's makes it useful.

You can have purity. But you won't have many users, because on the scale "Stallman My dad", they will all be on the far left.

Nothing wrong with that. But it won't be a big number.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#33

Post by sametmax »

pjmlp wrote: post #31
sametmax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a world where Gnome doesn't support any proprietary card drivers, where VLC can't read non open codecs, where libre office can't open doc* files... Does that seems like a world where FOSS can be successful in ?

Haven't you seen how largely successful Linux desktops are among common users, outside the ChromeOS and Android variants?

My point, actually.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#34

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

sametmax wrote: post #14
Majestic121 wrote: post #3

"Experimental Nvidia support has been deprecated since its inception, and has now been removed entirely. Please use nouveau and consider future purchases from GPU vendors that support open source. Other proprietary drivers are also unsupported." How is nouveau doing this days compared to the proprietary drivers of NVidia ?

Imagine a world where Gnome doesn't support any proprietary card drivers, where VLC can't read non open codecs, where libre office can't open doc* files... Does that seems like a world where FOSS can be successful in ?

    if (nvidia) {
        // thousands of lines of code
    } else {
        // thousands of lines of code
    }
I refuse to add this to my code. The nouveau driver is good enough for most people who aren't buying new cards, and if you're buying a new card you should give your money to a company that cares about FOSS.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#36

Post by xyproto »

ratsimihah wrote: post #19
Majestic121 wrote: post #3

"Experimental Nvidia support has been deprecated since its inception, and has now been removed entirely. Please use nouveau and consider future purchases from GPU vendors that support open source. Other proprietary drivers are also unsupported." How is nouveau doing this days compared to the proprietary drivers of NVidia ?

What does that exactly mean for Nvidia GPU users?

Use the proprietary nvidia driver and X for gaming or 3D-related work, use Nouveau, Wayland and Sway on your other computers.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#37

Post by microtonal »

I am really looking forward to using Sway. I briefly tried the beta and it worked very nicely. However, one problem that prevents me from switching completely is that with 2x scaling, XWayland apps are scaled up from a lower DPI, resulting in very blurry rendering.

As far as I understand, this is a problem in XWayland and GNOME uses a hack to make XWayland applications render without scaling (since X11 Qt/Gtk+ applications use their own scaling). But it makes using Firefox et al. way more convenient to use.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#38

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

Symmetry wrote: post #35

My current setup is to run xmonad as my window manager within an otherwise normal Gnome session. Is there a way to do this with Sway, possibly with some other desktop environment if I had to?

No, this is not currently possible, but it's something we're working on. It requires buy-in from e.g. Gnome, which is hard to get. KDE is more amenable to this.

By the way, check out waymonad, it's based on the same wlroots library as sway:

https://github.com/waymonad/waymonad

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#39

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

hannasanarion wrote: post #24
ratsimihah wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that exactly mean for Nvidia GPU users?

You have a choice of A: give up the improved performance and features of the proprietary driver to use i3 with wayland, no longer able to take screenshots or use secondary monitors B: continue using i3 with X

You can take screenshots and use secondary monitors on sway, I use four displays at home, including one rotated 90 degrees and one 4K display, to make sure I test each use-case before anything breaks for end-users. The performance of the novueau driver is adequate for most non-gaming workstations.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#40

Post by vectorEQ »

Majestic121 wrote: post #3

"Experimental Nvidia support has been deprecated since its inception, and has now been removed entirely. Please use nouveau and consider future purchases from GPU vendors that support open source. Other proprietary drivers are also unsupported." How is nouveau doing this days compared to the proprietary drivers of NVidia ?

i think you will be happy to hear since 2014 they can alterr the clock speeds and get out of the boot frquency of the cards which gives them somewhat normal performance. there is a bit of an issue still to reverse features implemented on the cards. this is a daunting task. these features make some functions in games or renderers run much smoother than directly rendering them or using non-specific resources for them ,which is why on a lot of places there is still considerable performance loss compared to nvidias own drivers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_(software) here is some interesting info on the state, with a lot of references

nvidia are a bunch of dicks who have no real reason to keep their specifications closed other than to (speculating) hide things they don't want you to see. patents and other things will still protect their IP / featuresets even if they open it.... intel/amd are where people should invest, especially people who are using alternate (non-windows) platforms, since nvidia will never open their sources, and amd/intel will never improve the way you want if you don't invest in their future!

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