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Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

climate.nasa.gov

31–40 of 94 posts

Re: Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

#31
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using way too much Hence my link to CO2 levels over Geologic Time. Do you think there was "way too much" CO2 in the past?

For Earth? No. For human society as we currently know it? Seems that way. We'll survive climate change, but flooding places like Bangladesh is going to cause tremendous upheaval. Humanity survived the ice age, but that didn't make it a fun period in our history.

You seem to suggest a pessimistic and static view of human society. The planet is not static, climate isn't either; why would society and civilization be? is there a single, optimum equilibrium for humanity? what's the evidence?

Re: Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

#32
You know whenever I read about this debate for some reason I recall George Carlin's prophetic words;

"The planet is fine....

The people are fucked."

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&#38...

Whether we like to admit this or not; the earth and life will go on without us. It's our own survival we are fighting for over here; not a complex system in which life has taken hold by surviving through tough odds without the intend of surviving. This piece of rock really doesn't give a damn.

Re: Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

#33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Earth? No. For human society as we currently know it? Seems that way. We'll survive climate change, but flooding places like Bangladesh is going to cause tremendous upheaval. Humanity survived the ice age, but that didn't make it a fun period in our history.

You seem to suggest a pessimistic and static view of human society. The planet is not static, climate isn't either; why would society and civilization be? is there a single, optimum equilibrium for humanity? what's the evidence?

There's no single, optimum equilibrium, but a disaster that makes double-digit percentages of the planet refugees seems to fit squarely in the "sucky" end of the spectrum.

Re: Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

#34

You know whenever I read about this debate for some reason I recall George Carlin's prophetic words; "The planet is fine.... The people are fucked." http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&#38... Whether we like to admit this or not; the earth and life will go on without us. It's our own survival we are fighting for over here; not a complex system in which life has taken hold by surviving through tough odds…

Alarmism has a really bad track record.

Re: Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

#35
post #34

You know whenever I read about this debate for some reason I recall George Carlin's prophetic words; "The planet is fine.... The people are fucked." http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&#38... Whether we like to admit this or not; the earth and life will go on without us. It's our own survival we are fighting for over here; not a complex system in which life has taken hold by surviving through tough odds…

Alarmism has a really bad track record.

It's not alarmism, what I'm saying is that this civilization is unsustainable by any metric you care to throw at it. We've over run our phosphorous reserves. We're depleting energy, land and the ability to feed our civilization. We're systematically amputating ourselves while worrying about the blood spilling on the floor.

It just strikes me how far away from reality this debate has taken us. Yes, none of this will kill the planet or this species for that matter, but it will kill this civilization.

In fact, this has happened again and again throughout history as Jared Diamond points out in his book, Collapse. When you see the record of civilizations and the choices they have made then 5 key metrics stand out;

1) Environmental damage

2) Climate change

3) Hostile neighbors

4) Friendly trade partners

5) The societies response to it's environmental problems

What's interesting is how he compared these metrics and individually isolated cases in histories where only a few were present and used them as examples to see what was going on. It's a beautiful and thrilling exploration between the factors, stakeholders at play and why those choices were made (as far as we know). A comment simply won't do that entire thing justice.

The thing is that there is a delicate interplay between our surroundings and our civilization and stretching it too far without healing won't lead to pleasant consequences. A civilization is a delicate state of things that needs to be maintained at a certain cost be it resources, intellectual or cultural capital. Everything joins to create an integrated whole and that's the problem; you can't have one without the other.

So, essentially we need to make a series of choices about how we are doing things and how we could do them if we want this period of prosperity to survive beyond a few decades.

Yes there is hope, but there's loads of work to do.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_...

Re: Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

#37
For anyone who still thinks Anthropogenic Global Warming is real, some reading material: http://everist.org/archives/links/!_AGW_links.txt http://everist.org/archives/links/!_CRU_emails_links.txt

Oh and yes, the graph was limited to 400K years,because otherwise it would show CO2 levels in the past FAR higher than today. And it doesn't show CO2 vs temp over geological timescales, because that graph clearly shows that CO2 lags temp, not the other way round.

It's the same old story - figure out who hopes to make money from a scam, and things get a lot clearer.

Re: Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

#38
post #20

Why did they decided to cut the graphic at 400,000 years before today? Maybe that's because a couple of million years ago the concentration of CO2 was well above today's level? By the way here is another picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atmospheric_CO2_with_glaci...

Look closely at the right edge of the picture. The text below the picture is revealing...

Human deforestation and burning of fossil fuel has raised atmospheric CO2 to over 380 ppm in the last century, well above pre-industrialized levels, and "off the scale" of this graph top.

Re: Nasa.gov: Evidence of Climate Change

#40
post #30
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the y-axis of a graph need to begin at 0? 0 is a number like any other number. If the result set you're attempting to display doesn't have any values at 0 then why would you display 0? The graph in question also doesn't show any data points at y=-257,687 ... does that concern you?

Because when zero is not marked it is impossible to judge the relative magnitude of all graph fluctuations without looking at the y axis scale. On this graph a lot of people (incl. me) would be tricked into thinking that in the last 100 years the amount of CO2 increased by an order of magnitude. Now, I know that's impossible, and I checked the scale at the left to find the usual suspect. But many normal people would…

The magnitude of the fluctuations should really be judged against the error bars, not against zero. That's what tells you whether the change is significant.
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