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Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

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Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#31

Post by sverige »

SECProto wrote: post #27
wskinner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on why the sale broke your heart? Was it because the beer itself changed? Or you were concerned that future development of new, different, beer would cease or move in a direction you didn't like? Or was it a political/philosophical issue of not wanting to support foreign corporations?

The macro Brewing company holders (AB-InBev, et al) have used a similar embrace, extend, extinguish method to Microsoft in the 90s. Eg - buy out South African hop market, then only allow those unique hops to be used by AB-InBev owned breweries. Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better. I can't speak to lagunitas as it isn't available in my market, but Goose Island beer has declined s…

> Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better.

Wait, I know it was a throwaway comment, but are you saying Windows 10 (or some previous version) is actually better than any other OS?

Also, fwiw, I have tried a lot of craft beers but now find that Coors (the original American "microbrew," since it was only available in a relatively small area when I was young) satisfies my beer thirst. Though I'll admit that I'll happily drink Budweiser, Miller, Shiner (another original "microbrew"), or a number of other ordinary beers. Time-tested and true, all of them, with the bonus that their CEOs don't turn into politicians.

I guess we're probably completely opposite in tastes.

Edit: Have you ever had a Rolling Rock? It's a good beer.

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#32

Post by lovich »

S_A_P wrote: post #15
lovich wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of an opinion there. I find IPA's completely unpalatable but could probably drink a sour beer every day

As I prefaced, it was my opinion. I’m not a huge IPA fan either.

I did miss that, my bad.

I do think that means theres still a lot of growth in the market. The IPA market seems fairly tapped out, along with porters, stouts, and lagers. There's still other people that aren't really into craft beer because their tastes haven't been served, like myself with craft beer.

It's not like the current craft beer market is serving the population of the earth - the percentage that are teetotalers

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#33

Post by lovich »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #23
everdev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently microbrews are out of fashion now and "nanobrews" are the new thing where only a couple cases or kegs are made in any one batch. I also know a lot more people being their own beer. I knew Lagunitas got too big though when I saw them in supermarkets in Boston and Europe. At that point you're just a brewery.

> At that point you're just a brewery. I fail to discern the difference. If the beer quality remains higher than the draft swill the major brewers have offered years, what does it matter that they've developed new markets?

The existing craft beer community seems to have a big element of fashion to it.

I have a social circle of friends who are very into craft beer. I have seen them throw out beer they had already purchased just because a brewery had sold to a big brewer like InBev.

At first I thought it was an ethical boycott like boycotting Nestle. After talking to them I found out it was solely because they were cool anymore and they didn't want to be seen associated with the brand.

The exact quote I heard was "I don't want to be caught drinking anything someone in college knows about"

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#34

Post by dorfsmay »

S_A_P wrote: post #15
lovich wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of an opinion there. I find IPA's completely unpalatable but could probably drink a sour beer every day

As I prefaced, it was my opinion. I’m not a huge IPA fan either.

"is just gross" sounds like a statement. "I really don't like" "I cannot drink", " it makes me gag" sounds like an opinion or preference.

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#35

Post by OldHand2018 »

SECProto wrote: post #27
wskinner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on why the sale broke your heart? Was it because the beer itself changed? Or you were concerned that future development of new, different, beer would cease or move in a direction you didn't like? Or was it a political/philosophical issue of not wanting to support foreign corporations?

The macro Brewing company holders (AB-InBev, et al) have used a similar embrace, extend, extinguish method to Microsoft in the 90s. Eg - buy out South African hop market, then only allow those unique hops to be used by AB-InBev owned breweries. Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better. I can't speak to lagunitas as it isn't available in my market, but Goose Island beer has declined s…

> Goose Island beer has declined significantly since being bought out

The brewmaster quit when they sold. He moved to a tiny city in western Michigan (Fennville) and started a hard cider company. It's really interesting stuff - kind of like exploring what wine would be like if made with apples. No idea how widely it's distributed (if at all), but worth trying - Virtue Cider.

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#36

Post by bleeblo »

baus wrote: post #14

I enjoy beer, but have to admit I’m burning out on the hopped up IPAs. Lagunitas produces a bunch of different beers, but they are all just variations of the same theme (ok I like their Pils)

As someone who doesn't enjoy very bitter beer, I do find the obsession of super duper hopped up IPAs in the US market really suffocating.

As a lot of posters noted, Sours and other beers are becoming more mainstream but I do think the "microbrewery" boom is finally coming to an end. Most of the famous ones are already owned by Heineken or A-B. Consolidation seems to be the natural state of the market it seems. I would like to see some in depth studies to see how this has changed the flavors, if at all. I'm always skeptical when people claim that the quality of these brewers lowered when purchased; however changes in the supply chain could result in that.

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#37

Post by SECProto »

sverige wrote: post #31
SECProto wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The macro Brewing company holders (AB-InBev, et al) have used a similar embrace, extend, extinguish method to Microsoft in the 90s. Eg - buy out South African hop market, then only allow those unique hops to be used by AB-InBev owned breweries. Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better. I can't speak to lagunitas as it isn't available in my market, but Goose Island beer has declined s…

> Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better. Wait, I know it was a throwaway comment, but are you saying Windows 10 (or some previous version) is actually better than any other OS? Also, fwiw, I have tried a lot of craft beers but now find that Coors (the original American "microbrew," since it was only available in a relatively small area when I was young) satisfies my beer thirst. T…

> > Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better.

> Wait, I know it was a throwaway comment, but are you saying Windows 10 (or some previous version) is actually better than any other OS?

Ha, yeah it was definitely a bit of a throwaway comment. I meant the opposite of that. I think a more accurate way for me to have said it would've been: "With craft beer, and unlike with OS, the independent options are indisputably better".

I'm not referring to the standard Macro brew styles - Bud, Coors, and even Rolling Rock are all indisputably good at what they do (American Lager, generally. https://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style01.php ). But they aren't trying to be flavourful, adventurous, craft breweries. The independent craft breweries are the ones that have tried new things to see what stuck. They brought us the waves of IPA, and more recently kettle sour and gose. And the craft breweries that have been bought out (eg Goose Island) have generally not been as adventurous or responsive with new styles, and have not even maintained the quality with their existing recipes.

Unlike most of the user base on this site, craft beer is definitely my strong suit, and computer stuff secondary. That said, I think with operating systems, there is a lot of room for dispute (eg, Windows is definitely the best operating system for running AutoCAD or most games, but that doesn't make it the best for every use case). I guess the same could be said for beer. If you're looking for a nice lager, you're probably going to be better off with something reliable from the big breweries, than the ester-y "lager" some brand-new independent brewery is trying to sell you on. Sum it up: yep, a throwaway comment :)

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#38

Post by SECProto »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #35
SECProto wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The macro Brewing company holders (AB-InBev, et al) have used a similar embrace, extend, extinguish method to Microsoft in the 90s. Eg - buy out South African hop market, then only allow those unique hops to be used by AB-InBev owned breweries. Unlike with operating systems, the independent options are actually better. I can't speak to lagunitas as it isn't available in my market, but Goose Island beer has declined s…

> Goose Island beer has declined significantly since being bought out The brewmaster quit when they sold. He moved to a tiny city in western Michigan (Fennville) and started a hard cider company. It's really interesting stuff - kind of like exploring what wine would be like if made with apples. No idea how widely it's distributed (if at all), but worth trying - Virtue Cider.

Interesting - I've added it to my list, in case I make it out that way. Thanks!

Cider has definitely been increasing the last few years, but even the funkiest wild-fermented ciders don't come close to what you can find in beer. In my experience!

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#39

Post by rubiquity »

Rapzid wrote: post #30
rubiquity wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alpine is owned by some random holding company in Michigan now after Green Flash over extended themselves and collapsed. Alpine used to make incredible beer that Green Flash was never able to replicate. Thankfully you can still get it at their original pub in Alpine.

Yeah, that's a real shame; Duet is one of my favorite IPAs. The store up the road from me still gets Duet, Windows UP, and recently Nelson(the only Nelson hops beers I've seen in the USA). Not sure how they have changed(I read WC IPA changed after Silva left) but I'm keeping an eye on the whole situation haha.

Duet, Hoppy Birthday, Pure Hoppiness, and Nelson were four out of my five favorite beers. I'll keep it short and just say it was crushing watching GF fail over and over again with that merger.

You are also right about West Coast IPA changing after Silva left. They turned it into a DIPA and it wasn't nearly as good. Much sweeter and less balanced.

Re: Lagunitas Brewing to lay off 12 percent of its workforce

#40

Post by plorkyeran »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #23
everdev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently microbrews are out of fashion now and "nanobrews" are the new thing where only a couple cases or kegs are made in any one batch. I also know a lot more people being their own beer. I knew Lagunitas got too big though when I saw them in supermarkets in Boston and Europe. At that point you're just a brewery.

> At that point you're just a brewery. I fail to discern the difference. If the beer quality remains higher than the draft swill the major brewers have offered years, what does it matter that they've developed new markets?

Part of it's just hipster fashion, of course.

Putting that aside, though, there may be reasons why it matters. Scaling up production while maintaining quality and consistency is actually very difficult. You simply can't stock supermarkets across the country using small-batch brewing methods, so it's inherently a sign that they've moved away from what made them good. Even if they're still much better than the "swill", they're probably no longer the best thing you could be drinking and it's time to search for a new favorite.

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