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Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

antipolygraph.org

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Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#31

Post by throwawaypolly »

polyfolly wrote: post #28

Throw away account. I get one every 5 years for my clearances. After having several, I view it as just another BS hoop to jump. Obviously it does not work as a lie detector, but it’s an excellent tool for interrogation. At least that’s my conclusion. Just answer yes and no. They’ll say you are almost done, but have an issue with one question, and want you to explain more. Don’t explain anything; just say “I don’t kno…

Throwaway as well.

FWIW I would estimate that 85% of my colleagues that discuss their poly experience view it as the same.

It is an interrogation prop masquerading as science. The poly is subjective, as evident by the few times I have failed, re-tested, and passed. If I were lying the first time and did not change any answers, how can I pass the second time?

The author alluded to it in her writing, but all of the test administrators have read up on methods of defeating the polygraph exam. Often, the "I've never heard of it" line is a lie.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#32

Post by polyfolly »

polythrowaway wrote: post #10

I was a team leader at a USSOCOM unit and had to take a poly to be read into a couple of three-letter agency programs. In the middle of the test, the smug 23 year old fresh college grad administering the thing tells me I'm being deceptive and obviously support jihadi terrorism. This as I'm getting ready to leave on my 12th deployment. I've never wanted to so violently break someone's face as right then in that moment…

Sounds like they are doing their job. Their job is to fuck with you. Just stay calm, relaxed, and board. It’s all a bunch of BS.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#33

Post by icebraining »

kodablah wrote: post #19

Maybe it is how it's written, but this person's entire career reads like a rat navigating through a maze built by superiors. Even though they say the job is among the happiest times of their life, it helps put into perspective the follower mentality some have, especially in the public sector. I'd have given the middle finger right away knowing I can find enjoyable work sans harassment. To put it crudely, I can't even…

How does "leverage" get you a job in Intelligence without passing a poly?

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#34

Post by codingdave »

fphhotchips wrote: post #24
viraptor wrote: post #15

> That rules out entire professions: ... and Pharmacy. Pharmacy in the is requires a polygraph? I didn't expect that. It's not required in other Commonwealth countries as far as I know.

The USA is not a Commonwealth country - they formally lost that membership when they declared independence (and informally when they dumped a shipment of tea into a harbour).

If you are going to get specific about history like that, then we formally lost that membership with the Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War, not the Declaration of Independence, which formalized why we started fighting it.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#35

Post by polyfolly »

throwawaypolly wrote: post #31
polyfolly wrote: post #28

Throw away account. I get one every 5 years for my clearances. After having several, I view it as just another BS hoop to jump. Obviously it does not work as a lie detector, but it’s an excellent tool for interrogation. At least that’s my conclusion. Just answer yes and no. They’ll say you are almost done, but have an issue with one question, and want you to explain more. Don’t explain anything; just say “I don’t kno…

Throwaway as well. FWIW I would estimate that 85% of my colleagues that discuss their poly experience view it as the same. It is an interrogation prop masquerading as science. The poly is subjective, as evident by the few times I have failed, re-tested, and passed. If I were lying the first time and did not change any answers, how can I pass the second time? The author alluded to it in her writing, but all of the tes…

Now that I think about it, it probably is useful for initial job screening. More like a psychological test to screen out those that get too riled up over stuff. Though that really has more to do with age. The first one I had took three hours. Years later, the recent one was 1 hour.

The one thing the intel community does want to screen out are rash decision makers. So it’s probably excellent measure of one’s ability to keep cool under pressure.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#36

Post by joncrane »

icebraining wrote: post #33
kodablah wrote: post #19

Maybe it is how it's written, but this person's entire career reads like a rat navigating through a maze built by superiors. Even though they say the job is among the happiest times of their life, it helps put into perspective the follower mentality some have, especially in the public sector. I'd have given the middle finger right away knowing I can find enjoyable work sans harassment. To put it crudely, I can't even…

How does "leverage" get you a job in Intelligence without passing a poly?

The leverage is the ability to make the same amount of money in a non-cleared role.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#37

Post by dev_dull »

JohnStrangeII wrote: post #6
csense wrote: post #3

If they know polygraph doesn't work, why do they still do it?

From what I've read about it, it works to some extent as long as people believe in it. They want to get their clearance and believe cheating could be detected, so they tend to be more truthful. It's based on intimidation and observation. The examination starts when you enter the building and stops when you leave it.

Something that tells the truth inconsistently and nondeterministically sounds worse for our society than just asking the question under oath.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#38

Post by cryoshon »

kodablah wrote: post #19

Maybe it is how it's written, but this person's entire career reads like a rat navigating through a maze built by superiors. Even though they say the job is among the happiest times of their life, it helps put into perspective the follower mentality some have, especially in the public sector. I'd have given the middle finger right away knowing I can find enjoyable work sans harassment. To put it crudely, I can't even…

>like a rat navigating through a maze built by superiors

brilliant use of language here, you're spot on. while i agree that the public sector can foster a passive mentality, i didn't get that vibe from the author. they were just a person trying to put up with the bullshit that accompanied a job they loved.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#39

Post by Waterluvian »

polyfolly wrote: post #35
throwawaypolly wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway as well. FWIW I would estimate that 85% of my colleagues that discuss their poly experience view it as the same. It is an interrogation prop masquerading as science. The poly is subjective, as evident by the few times I have failed, re-tested, and passed. If I were lying the first time and did not change any answers, how can I pass the second time? The author alluded to it in her writing, but all of the tes…

Now that I think about it, it probably is useful for initial job screening. More like a psychological test to screen out those that get too riled up over stuff. Though that really has more to do with age. The first one I had took three hours. Years later, the recent one was 1 hour. The one thing the intel community does want to screen out are rash decision makers. So it’s probably excellent measure of one’s ability t…

It would help me screen out jobs I don't want. Would never want to work somewhere that sees employees that way.

Re: Personal Statement of a CIA Analyst

#40

Post by cryoshon »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #5

>> To prepare for the test, I read A Tremor in the Blood by David T. Lykken. The book described the use of control versus relevant questions as well as countermeasure such as butt-clenching. This explains that other thing I read yesterday, in a different article about the polygraph test: "There may be something that's put on the tip of the finger that records blood flow and we also use something called a movement det…

not to mention that butt-clenching is just the simplest way of nonvisibly messing with your vital signs. a guy walking in off the street can butt clench.

once you get into some of the intermediate level buddhist body awareness studies, you won't need the butt clench to cause your muscle tenor, heart rate, body temp, and respiration to respond to your will.

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