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The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

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Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#31

The source code is 213 KB of ASCII, assembled on 1980-8-6. A souped-up Apple II at that time would have had 64 KB of RAM, and 140 KB of storage per floppy disk. I guess you needed a PDP-11 to do any real work in those days.

Using a serial bus to remote build/debug an application device is a venerable tradition. I know I still do that with USB and Android/iOS devices connected to a PC.

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#32
post #5

6502 assembly is so nice, I wrote some apps in the early 80's. You can learn the language in a few minutes. But all sorts of interesting clever things were possible.

6502 assembler on C64 is basically what taught me how to program. It was just as important to learn the memory map so that you could access low-level features by reading and writing at special memory addresses. The Compute! books were especially useful.

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the GP, but here's my perspective learning programming in a 3-year technical high school program in Brazil (I had a little bit of exposure before, with Windows batch files and shell scripts). We started with a language called Portugol or "structured Portuguese" which is something like a formalized pseudo-code language and was used to teach the basic concepts of structured programming: variables, control flow,…

Seems a shame that there wasn't a Portugol interpreter/compiler handy to at least see things running on a machine before moving to C. Probably would have been a good class assignment to more advanced students to build something like that.

How awesome would it have been to be a high performing student, writing programs that a lower performing student would have to execute manually on your simulated computer system. So much good stuff here. Do you want to layout the nand gate or BE the nand gate? Or be the one that decides which problems the nand gate solves?

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#36

The source code is 213 KB of ASCII, assembled on 1980-8-6. A souped-up Apple II at that time would have had 64 KB of RAM, and 140 KB of storage per floppy disk. I guess you needed a PDP-11 to do any real work in those days.

A PDP-11/45 or 11/70 would have much more memory, but being a 16 bit machine would still have been unable to handle this file in a conventional editor. Honestly I don't know if there were paging editors available for common environments. Certainly nothing on Unix would have worked.

Per the link, the file was editted and built on a PDP-10 running ITS, which was a 36 bit machine with an 18 bit address space.

Interestingly, almost everything else I've seen from ITS uses the 6 bit upper-case-only encoding. This is pretty clearly ASCII.

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#38
Logo was critical in my understanding of sub routines and got me away from the dreaded GOTO command in BASIC, can't say I did much more than use it as an expensive Spirograph but it is certainly responsible for my ability to understand function calls and libraries and how use them in modern object orientated laguages. Just instinct for new programmers now a days, but in the 80s and early 90s it was a difficult concept for many to grasp.

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, did the book do any explaining of why the magic computer words were in a foreign language (English)? Had you been exposed to much English already when you picked up the book? As a native English speaker I feel fairly ignorant of how programming is taught in other (human) languages. I recall a quote [1] by Eric S. Raymond commenting (or perhaps speculating?) that Linus commented his kernel…

I'm not the GP, but here's my perspective learning programming in a 3-year technical high school program in Brazil (I had a little bit of exposure before, with Windows batch files and shell scripts). We started with a language called Portugol or "structured Portuguese" which is something like a formalized pseudo-code language and was used to teach the basic concepts of structured programming: variables, control flow,…

That's intriguing to the point I tried to find the relevant web site. Thanks for conveying your experience with it: http://web.archive.org/web/20080212005133/http://gpt.berlios...

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#40

This is wonderful! My first paid programming job was writing a Logo Adventure program for C64 Terrapin Logo. They wanted a simple non-graphical game that showed off Logo's list processing capabilities, and I just used Logo's top level interpreter as the parser! That saved a lot of coding, but it did let you cheat (aka "learn to understand and program and debug Logo"). https://medium.com/@donhopkins/logo-adventure-for…

Diving into that MACLISP file, I found this variable and explanatory comment:

> SYNSTAX ... A STACK OF SYNTAX PROPERTIES

If there were a "stupid-clever variable names" hall of fame, that one would certainly make the cut.

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