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'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images

independent.co.uk

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Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images

#31

Post by KozmoNau7 »

chmln wrote: post #30
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom to offend, hell yes. But there is an issue when someone is directly inciting to hatred and violence against targeted groups or individuals. That sort of betavior needs to be acted against. The problem then is that the hatemongers actively try to skirt as close as they possibly can to the line without crossing it, with dogwhistle terms and other tricks. I don't have a perfect solution, and I don't think we'll…

Yes, its an issue, but I think you'd agree that legislating speech and expression in any way is a slippery slope. > The problem then is that the hatemongers The problem is also that one man's hatemonger is another man's preacher of truth, and what constitutes "hate" is not always objective. Policing speech would be a perfect way for political actors to abuse the law and jail their opponents for wrongthink

When I say "hatemongers", I specifically mean the type of people who call for people to "gas the Jews" or "exterminate all trans people", that sort of direct unequivocal hate and incitement of violence.

Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images

#32

Post by Slorg »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #19

"There were 25,339 homicides in Mexico [in 2017], a 23% jump from 2016 and the highest number since at least 1997, the year the government began tracking the data." (CNN) Good to see that the Mexican government is focusing on what's important.

They need to stop it before the first memecidio happens.

Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images

#33

Post by SamReidHughes »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #29
SamReidHughes wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should directly incite hatred towards groups that deserve it.

But then who gets to decide which groups deserve to be legitimate targets for hatred? Exactly, you cannot do that without bias.

Nobody. People are perfectly capable of taking your content and disliking a group, or disapproving of the group. And the other way around. If you can't say things that cause people to hate a group, you can't say anything critical of it.

Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images

#34

Post by SamReidHughes »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #31
chmln wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, its an issue, but I think you'd agree that legislating speech and expression in any way is a slippery slope. > The problem then is that the hatemongers The problem is also that one man's hatemonger is another man's preacher of truth, and what constitutes "hate" is not always objective. Policing speech would be a perfect way for political actors to abuse the law and jail their opponents for wrongthink

When I say "hatemongers", I specifically mean the type of people who call for people to "gas the Jews" or "exterminate all trans people", that sort of direct unequivocal hate and incitement of violence.

That surely omits establishment-approved violence like "attack Iraq", "round up criminals", "{legalize|outlaw} abortion" and "[sterilize] transgender children".

Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images

#35

Post by KozmoNau7 »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #33
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then who gets to decide which groups deserve to be legitimate targets for hatred? Exactly, you cannot do that without bias.

Nobody. People are perfectly capable of taking your content and disliking a group, or disapproving of the group. And the other way around. If you can't say things that cause people to hate a group, you can't say anything critical of it.

It's one thing to be critical or have disagreeing opinions.

It's something entirely to call for persecution and violence.

Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images

#36

Post by SamReidHughes »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #35
SamReidHughes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody. People are perfectly capable of taking your content and disliking a group, or disapproving of the group. And the other way around. If you can't say things that cause people to hate a group, you can't say anything critical of it.

It's one thing to be critical or have disagreeing opinions. It's something entirely to call for persecution and violence.

That's not how "hate" speech laws get applied, so I don't think you're arguing in good faith.

Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images

#37

Post by tracker1 »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #27
tracker1 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no right to "more civil and effective discourse in the public sphere" and while I'm not an apologist for assholes, the freedom to offend is essential in terms of those in power responding to the populace at large. Yes, some individual might be bullied, and if they want to constrain it to "those not serving in public office, management in a government position, or celebrity status" I might be willing to consid…

Freedom to offend, hell yes. But there is an issue when someone is directly inciting to hatred and violence against targeted groups or individuals. That sort of betavior needs to be acted against. The problem then is that the hatemongers actively try to skirt as close as they possibly can to the line without crossing it, with dogwhistle terms and other tricks. I don't have a perfect solution, and I don't think we'll…

Do you really want Donald Trump deciding what is hate speech and prosecuting violators?
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