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Let Teenagers Sleep In

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#31

Post by emodendroket »

> Changing the operating hours of an institution so central to the community is far from easy. It requires strong leadership and adjustments by school bus companies and businesses offering services like child care and extracurricular clubs.

Here's the elephant in the room. High schools start and end earlier with the idea that older kids can watch their siblings.

I'd say a lack of public commitment to child care is also a big reason for the low rate of young people having children commentators like to wring their hands about.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#32

Post by rjbwork »

QML wrote: post #23

I wonder if it'd just be easier for high schools to convert over to a college model: students are free to pick courses corresponding to their preferred times, and to leave and enter campus on will. Of course, there will be incentives to consider -- why would a high schooler attend their classes if they're not paying directly out of pocket? In contrast, a school district would try to maximize the attendance rate as th…

Drastically reduce administrators. Give the kids something like 25 to 50 cents per class attended.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#33

Post by emodendroket »

captainmuon wrote: post #11

Wouldn't the average teenager just stay up even longer? It's not like they are hardcoded to wake up at a certain clock time. I think it would make much more sense to change the content of school during those years to reflect the interests of students better. Let them take a break, do something practical, do projects, etc. instead of trying to cram facts into their heads. A lot of stuff I headed to learn when I was 13…

That they are "hardcoded" in this way is one of the major points of this piece. Changing the curriculum, whatever its merits or demerits, is not going to result in fewer teens dying in car crashes.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#34

Post by AnssiH »

QML wrote: post #23

I wonder if it'd just be easier for high schools to convert over to a college model: students are free to pick courses corresponding to their preferred times, and to leave and enter campus on will. Of course, there will be incentives to consider -- why would a high schooler attend their classes if they're not paying directly out of pocket? In contrast, a school district would try to maximize the attendance rate as th…

That's how it works in Finland in lukio (upper secondary school between 9th grade and university), we picked the courses ourselves and left/entered campus on will. Looks like the course-based system was introduced in 1982.

And personally I did prefer course instances that were later on the day over those that were earlier.

We still had mandatory lesson attendance, though, unlike most university courses.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#35

Post by emodendroket »

shawn wrote: post #14
fiblye wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School's purpose is to introduce kids to things they otherwise wouldn't have a chance to learn. Coming from a poor, working class family, an apprenticeship-driven society like those of centuries ago would've resulted in me being trapped doing back-breaking labor and having no chance to escape. But I got a chance to study tech and other languages, got interested in things my family could never understand, and moved to…

Meanwhile in Ameriburger, the kids tear each other to shreds. It sounds like the educational opportunities you got were what I spent years fantasizing about, wondering if there was anything better than going from mostly-dead teacher to mostly-dead teacher and forced to memorize pointless geographical facts in exchange for ... nothing at all, as far as I could tell.

I went to high school in America and I learned things. At any rate, why would teenagers be less cruel in the workplace?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#36

Post by ndnxhs »

emodendroket wrote: post #33
captainmuon wrote: post #11

Wouldn't the average teenager just stay up even longer? It's not like they are hardcoded to wake up at a certain clock time. I think it would make much more sense to change the content of school during those years to reflect the interests of students better. Let them take a break, do something practical, do projects, etc. instead of trying to cram facts into their heads. A lot of stuff I headed to learn when I was 13…

That they are "hardcoded" in this way is one of the major points of this piece. Changing the curriculum, whatever its merits or demerits, is not going to result in fewer teens dying in car crashes.

Idk. I had a few close calls while driving to school mostly asleep.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#37

Post by barry-cotter »

adamnemecek wrote: post #5
renjimen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each to their own. An apprenticeship wouldn't work for something like the sciences where you need to understand the theory before you can work under someone more senior. But you're right, for vocational training where you learn by doing having the option of an apprenticeship may be far more fruitful than staying in school. I believe Germany has this kind of system.

There are apprenticeships for programming and electrical engineering.

Can you link to the electrical engineering apprenticeship? To confirm the obvious you don’t mean an electrician apprenticeship, right?

Edit: Never mind Electrical Engineering https://www.ausbildung.de/berufe/elektrotechniker/ Electrician https://www.ausbildung.de/berufe/elektroniker/

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#38

Post by anticensor »

YokoZar wrote: post #15
captainmuon wrote: post #11

Wouldn't the average teenager just stay up even longer? It's not like they are hardcoded to wake up at a certain clock time. I think it would make much more sense to change the content of school during those years to reflect the interests of students better. Let them take a break, do something practical, do projects, etc. instead of trying to cram facts into their heads. A lot of stuff I headed to learn when I was 13…

> Wouldn't the average teenager just stay up even longer? It's not like they are hardcoded to wake up at a certain clock time. They literally are. And that time is later than adults. That's what circadean rhythms are.

If this difference exceeds two hours, they have a problem.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#39

Post by darkerside »

rerx wrote: post #18

One of the many fascinating facts I learnt from Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" is that the biorhythms of teenagers are shifted to later hours compared to those of adults in all human cultures of the globe, even in those rare societies hardly affected by technology. In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance, which was necessary to d…

Just as likely that teenagers would then be able to stand watch for predators, attacks by other tribes, or hunt for nocturnal prey.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#40

Post by another-cuppa »

But maybe not too much? My parents let me sleep. School started at 9:00 for me but on weekends and holidays I would sleep for more than ten hours and default to a >24 hour circadian rhythm. I would eventually become completely nocturnal which is kinda funny and considered typical for a geek like me, but it really messed up my mental health for a number of years afterwards. I wasn't able to maintain "normal" sleeping patterns until my late 20s.
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