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EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

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Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#31

Post by falcor84 »

yAnonymous wrote: post #14

Ultimately, most publishers will probably handle it like Valve, who have found a brilliant workaround: Show players the contents of the next box they buy, which makes it not gambling. I hate it, but it's a very elegant solution to avoid any legal problems.

Not being familiar with their system myself, I have to ask - does this imply that there's 2nd order gambling? I mean, the same gambling "kick" then arises from seeing what they would get after paying for the following big, right?

I suppose they could also make the boxes transparent all the way down, but that would just shift the gamble to the account creation phase.

Oh, or is it just the exact same boxes for everyone? I suppose that solves the problem.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#32

Post by xg15 »

mbel wrote: post #10
beezischillin wrote: post #4

Video game publishers have been trying consistently to implement a "less for more" attitude when it comes to their products. The whole lootbox trend on a whole was the peak of having their cake and eating it (wanting to "chase whales" like the free to play model but charging full price for the product). The only surprising thing about this is that there hasn't been a lot more push-back a way earlier.

> Video game publishers have been trying consistently to implement a "less for more" attitude when it comes to their products. Isn't maximizing profits just a natural consequence of having a for-profit business? It's not just evil video game publishers, everybody wants to sell less for more.

Indeed it is. Doesn't make it a good thing.

However, I think the entertainment industry is particularly fond of this.

My guess is because its products are both luxury items (so moral arguments against the same practices in housing or pharma don't necessarily apply) and items that consumers potentially have enormous emotional investment in. So once you've managed to build a fanbase, you can get away with a lot before the fans will seriously consider quitting.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#34

Post by chottocharaii »

chinathrow wrote: post #11
Insanity wrote: post #9

When playing Battlefield 5 beta last weekend, I was actually thinking about this. I'm wondering how they'll approach it in that game. I have a bit of a double feeling about this as a Belgian - on the one hand I think it's a good direction for the industry. We didn't have that crap a decade ago and I'll be happy to see it removed. OTOH, I hope they don't just remove content for the Belgian market as it'd potentially c…

> It is EA after all, a company I don't have a lot of faith in. Why are you playing their games then?

Because EA has most of the marketshare, and can afford to make big budget titles.

If a more regulated producer had similar marketshare, I could play the big budget titles of that regulated corporation.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#35

Post by comboy »

Should all gambling be illegal then? I fail to see the problem with it. If somebody feels that's where she wants to put her money - great. If you arguing that's poor use of somebody's money then you may also want to ban whole lot of foods and gadgets. Those can be addictive too.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#36

Post by simion314 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #29
daemin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that in their pursuit of profit they are creating slot machines with the actual game on the side. Then they are crippling the game so that you have to use the slot machine to have any sense of fun while playing the game. Therefore there are two choices: Either they get regulated as other slot machine makers around the world, including being taxed as both a slot machine maker and as a slot machine opera…

The culture has changed and is ok with gambling being inserted everywhere, especially in tech circles. Look at the threads about daily fantasy sports in HN. Many impassioned comments about how the ability to bet on sports is freedom, etc..

Not OP, not everyone wants to make gambling illegal just regulate it so some categories of people don't get abused. If the game is gambling then the existing rules for gambling need to apply, if you don't like the existing rules then you need to try to change them.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#37

Post by menzoic »

mbel wrote: post #10
beezischillin wrote: post #4

Video game publishers have been trying consistently to implement a "less for more" attitude when it comes to their products. The whole lootbox trend on a whole was the peak of having their cake and eating it (wanting to "chase whales" like the free to play model but charging full price for the product). The only surprising thing about this is that there hasn't been a lot more push-back a way earlier.

> Video game publishers have been trying consistently to implement a "less for more" attitude when it comes to their products. Isn't maximizing profits just a natural consequence of having a for-profit business? It's not just evil video game publishers, everybody wants to sell less for more.

>Isn't maximizing profits just a natural consequence of having a for-profit business? It's not just evil video game publishers, everybody wants to sell less for more.

I think less for more naturally would come with inflation across the board but the less for more approach isn't the only way to increase profits or even the most popular one. The computer industry for example is known for scaling by giving more for less. Beverage companies add more drinks for the same price. Less for more requires a monopoly or something close to it, otherwise competitors rush in.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#38

Post by efdee »

Spooky23 wrote: post #29
daemin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that in their pursuit of profit they are creating slot machines with the actual game on the side. Then they are crippling the game so that you have to use the slot machine to have any sense of fun while playing the game. Therefore there are two choices: Either they get regulated as other slot machine makers around the world, including being taxed as both a slot machine maker and as a slot machine opera…

The culture has changed and is ok with gambling being inserted everywhere, especially in tech circles. Look at the threads about daily fantasy sports in HN. Many impassioned comments about how the ability to bet on sports is freedom, etc..

Having the ability to bet is freedom. Being seduced (avoiding the word 'forced' here) into betting under the guise of a game... not so much.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#39

Post by koolba »

comboy wrote: post #35

Should all gambling be illegal then? I fail to see the problem with it. If somebody feels that's where she wants to put her money - great. If you arguing that's poor use of somebody's money then you may also want to ban whole lot of foods and gadgets. Those can be addictive too.

I think it’s the targeting. I’m no prude by any stretch and am in favor of both legalized gambling and prostitution. But I wouldn’t want either to be marketed or directly available to minors.

That extends to gaming platforms and the trend toward randomized loot boxes. It’s not “like gambling”. It is gambling. Arguably worse though as there’s no regulatory oversight.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#40

Post by nicktelford »

comboy wrote: post #35

Should all gambling be illegal then? I fail to see the problem with it. If somebody feels that's where she wants to put her money - great. If you arguing that's poor use of somebody's money then you may also want to ban whole lot of foods and gadgets. Those can be addictive too.

Gambling is tightly controlled and age-restricted in most countries, usually only available to those aged 18+.

Publishers have been using the argument that loot boxes aren't gambling in order to justify making them available to minors. As far as I'm aware, Belgiums' decision to ban them is more a recognition that they are, in fact, gambling, and therefore should not be available to minors.

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