Tolstoy’s ‘Resurrection’ is strikingly similar to how we treat prisoners today • Hacker News Board

Re: Tolstoy’s ‘Resurrection’ is strikingly similar to how we treat prisoners today

#31

Post by pawelmurias » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:25 AM UTC

gnulinux wrote: post #11

themodelplumber wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why the age of the novel factors in. Reading is a subjective experience with a variety of modes and conditions, so if for example the subject is working their way through old novels as a hobby then yes, I really can see why it'd be just as annoying to have the 120 year old plot spoiled as it would be for a brand new movie. Still, I think "spoiler alert" is a lot better in cases like these than "no spoiler…

One should never read literature for it's plot. Learning the plot of a literature book should have no affect in its enjoyment. This is similar to enjoying a painting for it's plot: "oh so a man is looking up, it's night time, there are a lot of stars, a large tree covering left side of the canvas, the man has some sort vision problem and stars look really huge and yellow. Then there is moon, shining yellow. Below the…

A painting is not an equivalent experience. BTW. you could enjoy a picture or painting because it captured an interesting moment despite it's lack of other redeeming qualities. BTW analogies as arguments, would you enjoy a puzzle fully if you know an answer?

Re: Tolstoy’s ‘Resurrection’ is strikingly similar to how we treat prisoners today

#32

Post by jordigh » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 1:00 PM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #9

saurik wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could the age of the novel affect the answer to that question?

Many people think that we are in a totally unprecendented time in history. So you "don't get to" use history to criticize their great and unique ideas ... that ... mostly are not entirely unprecedented or original. Just like they did in the 60s ... and the 20s ... and during the French revolution ... and 100 times before and in between those ... Now don't get me wrong, there is something new everytime. Like pictures…

Spoiler culture is unprecedented in history. The idea of spoilers was invented by Hitchcock in the 1960s to sell more tickets for his movies. "Don't give away the ending!"

Re: Tolstoy’s ‘Resurrection’ is strikingly similar to how we treat prisoners today

#33

Post by OtterCoder » Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

sytelus wrote: post #27

In US constitution, the 13th amendment leaves out only prisoners from salvery clause. It was bit shocking because US constitution essentially says that government can use prisoners jus like slaves! I feel our current system of punishments and prisoners is very barberic. In my experience, people change dramatically in beliefs and who the are every 7-10 years. So having a prison term longer than that is essentially sam…

What's so barbaric about insisting that rebels to the social contract learn how to work? Or demanding, even at metaphorical or literal gunpoint, that they work to support themselves, just as the rest of society must?

Now, I would like to say that this comment only applies to serious crimes. Murder, violence, kidnapping, theft. People who have proven that they cannot currently function in normal company. Labor and honest sweat can serve a great role in teaching a man the value and positive power of his hands, even if they were once bloody. In fact, you admit almost as much in the phrase "make their own sustainable living".

That said, the current system strays a little far from that script, for two reasons: overcriminalization and unregulated for-profit prisons. I have no problem with forcing a serious criminal to work, or work profitably, but a hard-working blue collar guy who was caught with drugs doesn't deserve to be forced through the same program that's designed to rehabilitate thieves! At the same time, the work they endure should be no more extraordinary, or less regulated, than what a person on the outside must do. The fruits of their labor should be mainly culled to offset the cost of their incarceration, just as most of our pay is taken by the bank and the landlord, but the wages should be fair, and saving some money should be allowed. The only option that should be denied them is laziness.

Re: Tolstoy’s ‘Resurrection’ is strikingly similar to how we treat prisoners today

#34

Post by brownbat » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #20

brownbat wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a case once where a guy kept breaking into a local business. Didn't take anything, just broke the door or a window and picked things up and moved them around a bit then left. Did it repeatedly despite a series of warnings and discussions. Guy was not malicious, just not mentally healthy. Doing nothing meant the business would continue to get harassed. Judge and prosecutor and defense attorney had a long confer…

So what was the end result? Did they send the guy to prison or try and get him the help he needed?

They had no authority to compel treatment.

I think they used the minimum sentence then worked to set up a mental health court for future cases.