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Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

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Re: Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

#31

Post by userbinator »

tinco wrote: post #27
userbinator wrote: post #23

It seems that recently there's been interest in procedurally-generated imagery among artists, but almost all completely unaware that the demoscene has been doing the same (and much advanced its techniques) for many years: http://iquilezles.org/www/articles/raymarchingdf/raymarching... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene

Demoscene demos are nice, but to me they feel more like expressions of technical prowess rather than aesthetic art. I don't think I've ever seen a demo where the result transcends the algorithm, and I don't think that's the goal of the demoscene in any case. They want to showcase how much technical brilliance they can fit in a couple of KB's. That's different from this example, where the goal is more like how much ex…

They want to showcase how much technical brilliance they can fit in a couple of KB's.

You need to look beyond the tiny size-limited ("intro") categories, there are PC demos which are multiple megabytes and they certainly have more of a traditional artistic feel to them, because things like sampled images can then be used easily.

Re: Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

#32

Post by tinco »

crucialfelix wrote: post #26

I like Manolo Naon's art, and I am quite fond of creative coding, but something that strikes me when seeing this article comparing his works to Kandinsky, Ernst et. al is that his works are always harmonious, a single idea in action, whereas all these classic artists have conflicts and discord in their works. They deliberately avoided doing things that were simply decorative or pleasant. (Probably they were avoiding…

I think you can seperate these two aspects of Kandinsky or Ernst's works. On one side the skill and aesthetics of the artwork, and on the other side the reflection of their times and circumstances.

We've established that Naon, Kandinsky and Ernst make beautiful artworks. So it makes sense to compare them on their aesthetics if they have similarities.

When it comes to the 'depth' you are speaking of, the modernists are pushing back against their environments and their history, struggling and competing with their contemporaries. This makes the art 'live' and gives it uniqueness. Never again can someone have the exact same circumstances and history of Kandinsky, those times are simply over.

Naon has his own history and his own circumstances. Maybe now they may seem shallow, but time will tell if his time and experience was unique, and his artwork a reflection of it. As you say he is young, maybe there is still more inside of him to grow and come out. But I have to say I have not seen generative art that good before.

If nothing else, it might be the best we've got to challenge the next generation of generative AI art with.

Re: Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

#33

Post by dharma1 »

cpdt wrote: post #29
tinco wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demoscene demos are nice, but to me they feel more like expressions of technical prowess rather than aesthetic art. I don't think I've ever seen a demo where the result transcends the algorithm, and I don't think that's the goal of the demoscene in any case. They want to showcase how much technical brilliance they can fit in a couple of KB's. That's different from this example, where the goal is more like how much ex…

You're right that many demos simply exist to showcase technical brilliance, but many in the demoscene are starting to trend further towards expressing artistic ability. Some examples off the top of my head: - Number One/Another One by CNCD/FLT: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=77399 - When Silence Dims the Stars Above by Conspiracy: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=75713 - Aurora by Excess: http://www.pouet.net…

Smash smashing it again with the first one...

BTW - your realtime synth engine (https://github.com/monadgroup/axiom) looks great. Any ETA for a Mac build of the VST?

Re: Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

#34

Post by cpdt »

dharma1 wrote: post #33
cpdt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that many demos simply exist to showcase technical brilliance, but many in the demoscene are starting to trend further towards expressing artistic ability. Some examples off the top of my head: - Number One/Another One by CNCD/FLT: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=77399 - When Silence Dims the Stars Above by Conspiracy: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=75713 - Aurora by Excess: http://www.pouet.net…

Smash smashing it again with the first one... BTW - your realtime synth engine ( https://github.com/monadgroup/axiom ) looks great. Any ETA for a Mac build of the VST?

I have a super-beta build working, if you'd like to try it out/help bugfix shoot me an email at "copodt at the google email" and I'll send it to you :)

Re: Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

#35

Post by wool_gather »

pasabagi wrote: post #28
userbinator wrote: post #23

It seems that recently there's been interest in procedurally-generated imagery among artists, but almost all completely unaware that the demoscene has been doing the same (and much advanced its techniques) for many years: http://iquilezles.org/www/articles/raymarchingdf/raymarching... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene

Well, artists have been making generative art for a bit longer than that. Manfred Mohr was making stuff in the late 60's. That said, I kinda agree with your point. A lot of the time, it's through ignorance, sometimes, it's strategy, and sometimes, you have people who are genuinely interested and influenced by stuff like this - but it would never come out in an interview, since the interviewer is inevitably coming fro…

Another fellow who's been creating generative images for a long time, as part of the fine-arts world, is Jean-Pierre Hébert: http://jeanpierrehebert.com/index.html Had a grant from the Krasner/Pollock Foundation at one point, I believe.

He's got some great pieces displayed there.

Re: Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

#36

Post by wool_gather »

crucialfelix wrote: post #26

I like Manolo Naon's art, and I am quite fond of creative coding, but something that strikes me when seeing this article comparing his works to Kandinsky, Ernst et. al is that his works are always harmonious, a single idea in action, whereas all these classic artists have conflicts and discord in their works. They deliberately avoided doing things that were simply decorative or pleasant. (Probably they were avoiding…

I've experienced what you're talking about as maybe the fundamental challenge in making computer-based art. Computers love to follow rules. Come up with some interesting rules, and they will spit out interesting pictures/music. It's much much harder to figure out how to tell the computer "okay, but break the rule just a little bit, at the appropriate time". Codifying breaking the rules as its own rule is...well, so far it's mostly eluded me.

Re: Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

#38

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

crucialfelix wrote: post #26

I like Manolo Naon's art, and I am quite fond of creative coding, but something that strikes me when seeing this article comparing his works to Kandinsky, Ernst et. al is that his works are always harmonious, a single idea in action, whereas all these classic artists have conflicts and discord in their works. They deliberately avoided doing things that were simply decorative or pleasant. (Probably they were avoiding…

My thoughts exactly. These "imperfections" are marks of individuality. My prediction is that the next step would be introducing these algorithmically in a way that we find acceptable. For now, Manolo's art seems nice, but very far from the works of famous futurists, surrealists of Bauhaus painters.

Re: Generative Art Finds Its Prodigy

#40

Post by wool_gather »

yoz-y wrote: post #5

I know art is whatever people describe as art but I can't really get behind this specific kind of creation. To me this creates as much emotion as a gravatar and reminds me of my dabbling in fractal art. Just hit random until something nice comes out.

It takes a lot of monkeys with a lot of paintbrushes a very, very long time to even complete a paint-by-numbers. This is worlds away from simple randomness; I invite you to try "just hit[ting] random" and see what happens. The art is in finding restrictions on the process, and that has clearly happened in these images. (Incidentally, that's also the case in "traditional" media too.)
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