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Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

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Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#31

Post by romwell »

User23 wrote: post #10
romwell wrote: post #6

Securing visas for (and hiring) foreign workers instead of citizens, in itself, is not criminal or wrong -- and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally. The problem is when this process is used to save on salaries, favoring foreigners over locals on the basis of being able to pay foreigners less only. The article alleges (without evidence!†) that this is what happened.…

How is not wanting competition from aliens in the labor market irrational for native workers? Restricting the labor supply in the market always and everywhere improves labor’s share of societal wealth.

>How is not wanting competition from aliens in the labor market irrational for native workers?

Extreme example: Elon Musk was not born in the US. He was an immigrant. Even ignoring the whole nation-of-immigrants ideology, surely you agree that the country and its workers may benefit from immigration?

The title makes it seem like hiring any foreign workers is bad a-priori.

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#32

Post by dang »

rule_follower wrote: post #22
romwell wrote: post #6

Securing visas for (and hiring) foreign workers instead of citizens, in itself, is not criminal or wrong -- and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally. The problem is when this process is used to save on salaries, favoring foreigners over locals on the basis of being able to pay foreigners less only. The article alleges (without evidence!†) that this is what happened.…

>dey turk ur jerbs This sniffling condescension toward those in our society who have and continue to lose out to corporate interests who have sold out the American worker is vile. When employment and income prospects of citizens are reduced and dimmed at all levels, be it farm workers or IT gods, because corporations are importing foreigners to replace them (whether directly or indirectly) and the government is eithe…

Would you please stop using HN for ideological battle? It's not what this site is for and we ban accounts that are here only to do that.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#33

Post by [deleted] »

rule_follower wrote: post #22
romwell wrote: post #6

Securing visas for (and hiring) foreign workers instead of citizens, in itself, is not criminal or wrong -- and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally. The problem is when this process is used to save on salaries, favoring foreigners over locals on the basis of being able to pay foreigners less only. The article alleges (without evidence!†) that this is what happened.…

>dey turk ur jerbs This sniffling condescension toward those in our society who have and continue to lose out to corporate interests who have sold out the American worker is vile. When employment and income prospects of citizens are reduced and dimmed at all levels, be it farm workers or IT gods, because corporations are importing foreigners to replace them (whether directly or indirectly) and the government is eithe…

[deleted]

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#34

Post by j05huaNathaniel »

romwell wrote: post #6

Securing visas for (and hiring) foreign workers instead of citizens, in itself, is not criminal or wrong -- and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally. The problem is when this process is used to save on salaries, favoring foreigners over locals on the basis of being able to pay foreigners less only. The article alleges (without evidence!†) that this is what happened.…

> (Cisco must pay its visa-holding employees a higher salary)

Why? They weren't hired because they were more qualified than local candidates. The workers should be sent home. Cisco should be sued for defrauding the government. They should pay a fine that compensates all of the foreign workers and be suspended from using work visas for 5-10 years. An example needs to be made.

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#35

Post by User23 »

romwell wrote: post #31
User23 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is not wanting competition from aliens in the labor market irrational for native workers? Restricting the labor supply in the market always and everywhere improves labor’s share of societal wealth.

>How is not wanting competition from aliens in the labor market irrational for native workers? Extreme example: Elon Musk was not born in the US. He was an immigrant. Even ignoring the whole nation-of-immigrants ideology, surely you agree that the country and its workers may benefit from immigration? The title makes it seem like hiring any foreign workers is bad a-priori .

Committing securities violations on Twitter is a job that Americans just won’t do. Tweets are rotting on the internets!

Seriously though, Elon Musk has undoubtedly benefitted from immigrating to the United States, as most immigrants do. Presumably the native born employees of Tesla and his other ventures have directly benefitted as well. Of course it’s impossible to show one way or the other that a native born entrepreneur wouldn’t have filled the same niche.

Also nobody likes to talk about the massive deleterious effects on the immigrants home countries of having their best and brightest leave.

To answer your direct question I absolutely agree that Americans can benefit from some level of immigration. I don’t believe Americans benefit from a level of migration that makes them a political minority in their own homeland though. Although I admit to anticipating schadenfreude when the foreign majority votes themselves the baby boomer’s assets around 2040.

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#36

Post by supercanuck »

romwell wrote: post #6

Securing visas for (and hiring) foreign workers instead of citizens, in itself, is not criminal or wrong -- and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally. The problem is when this process is used to save on salaries, favoring foreigners over locals on the basis of being able to pay foreigners less only. The article alleges (without evidence!†) that this is what happened.…

>and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally

... AT THAT PRICEPOiNT.

You are arguing that those software engineers should be available at the average price. Cisco has a net revenue of 12.8 billion and is dependent on software engineers

Allow the salaries to rise for godsake and then lets complain about “not finding good software engineers”

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#37

Post by mc32 »

romwell wrote: post #6

Securing visas for (and hiring) foreign workers instead of citizens, in itself, is not criminal or wrong -- and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally. The problem is when this process is used to save on salaries, favoring foreigners over locals on the basis of being able to pay foreigners less only. The article alleges (without evidence!†) that this is what happened.…

If the presumed implication of not denying favoritism as quoted in the article: "Cisco, the website [Bloomberg] reported, denied the allegation about pay but didn’t address the issue of favoring foreign workers." If they declined comment on both, you could have a point --but they chose to comment on one allegation but not the other.

I would say the headline is more accurate than your revision.

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#38

Post by romwell »

supercanuck wrote: post #36
romwell wrote: post #6

Securing visas for (and hiring) foreign workers instead of citizens, in itself, is not criminal or wrong -- and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally. The problem is when this process is used to save on salaries, favoring foreigners over locals on the basis of being able to pay foreigners less only. The article alleges (without evidence!†) that this is what happened.…

>and absolutely the thing to do when the foreign employees bring skills not available locally ... AT THAT PRICEPOiNT. You are arguing that those software engineers should be available at the average price. Cisco has a net revenue of 12.8 billion and is dependent on software engineers Allow the salaries to rise for godsake and then lets complain about “not finding good software engineers”

>Allow the salaries to rise for godsake and then lets complain about “not finding good software engineers”

That's what I'm really saying, too. Both "there aren't enough engineers" and "the foreigners are taking our jobs" sentiments will be addressed by this.

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#39

Post by grad_ml »

I think this statement is false by nature. If one have secured visa, assuming following law, is something like saying that Cisco have engineers on H1b. Taha, whole world knows that, it's in public domain. This is like saying Google or some other firm is using H1B employee.

Re: Cisco ‘secured visas for foreign workers instead of hiring US citizens’: report

#40

Post by redahs »

User23 wrote: post #30
redahs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The previous explanation of declining fertility rates is a real effect which should not be ignored. Since the 1970s, increases to payroll taxes and decreases to taxes on property and capital gains have increased the tax burden on younger working families relative to older families and inflated the cost of housing. This has prevented American families to afford having as many children as early in life, and caused nati…

Maybe that’s true. Or maybe the arrow of causality runs the other way and increased labor supply and housing demand due to mass immigration of foreign labor drives down wages and drives up housing costs, thereby reducing native fertility rates. Edit: I wonder to what extent the US current account deficit is funding west coast real estate valuations. I know Chinese cash buyers were a big part of the Vancouver price in…

The United States is not currently experiencing mass immigration. Its total annual population growth rate including immigration is lower than 1% and has not been this low since the Great Depression. The United States is a relatively lightly populated country per unit of total land area, and many cities in the interior of the country are declining in population despite immigration.

Housing prices are inversely correlated with the property tax rate on real estate and the income tax rate on capital gains. A decline in either real estate property taxes or capital gain income taxes increases housing prices, by making land more attractive as an investment. This effect is independent of the population of the country. If it becomes more attractive to put money into land rather than in businesses which employ workers, and changes to the tax code cause an increase in land banking, then the price of land increases faster than wages and salaries used to buy it regardless of the level of population of the country.

Taxing earned income of younger families via payroll taxes at a much higher rate than unearned increment of land via property taxes and capital gains taxes is basically a very slow moving form of national suicide.

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