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We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

blogs.microsoft.com

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Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#31

Post by lern_too_spel »

ionised wrote: post #29
lern_too_spel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a non sequitur. It is not clear that privacy (specifically privacy of data on Microsoft systems from court order, if that's what you mean) is necessary for democracy. On the other hand, the ability to unmask people who are subverting elections is useful for democracy.

> It is not clear that privacy (specifically privacy of data on Microsoft systems from court order, if that's what you mean) is necessary for democracy. How would democracy ever work if people had no privacy?

How would democracy ever work if people had absolute privacy? It wouldn't, but that isn't what we were discussing either.

The claim under discussion is that the privacy loss that is affected by Microsoft's privacy policy is detrimental to democracy. That claim was presented without any support.

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#32

Post by vetinari »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #26
swebs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Microsoft collects and uses various types of data, such as your device location, data from your calendar, the apps you use, data from your emails and text messages, who you call, your contacts and how often you interact with them on your device. Cortana also learns about you by collecting data about how you use your device and other Microsoft services, such as your music, alarm settings, whether the lock screen is…

"Microsoft does not collect any personal information via inking or typing.... The data is put through rigorous, multi-pass scrubs to ensure it does not collect sensitive or identifiable fields (e.g., no email addresses, passwords, alpha-numerical data, etc.). Data is also chopped into very small bits and stripped of sequence data so it cannot be put back together or identified. The data samplings collected are limite…

> Microsoft does not collect any personal information via inking or typing....

That's claim that cannot be verified.

Until Microsoft provides a clear, unobfuscated method to verify what is being sent, and also option to 100% disable all phoning home, there will be a suspicion of their own making.

Anything other is just obfuscation and PR.

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#33

Post by chvid »

Because who better than Microsoft to save our democracy?

I can't think of anyone ... oh wait ... I can! What about Apple and Google? Yes. Please. Apple, Microsoft and Google - together - save our democracies! You are the only ones who can.

Thank you.

-- the little people

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#34

Post by kw71 »

vetinari wrote: post #32
lern_too_spel wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Microsoft does not collect any personal information via inking or typing.... The data is put through rigorous, multi-pass scrubs to ensure it does not collect sensitive or identifiable fields (e.g., no email addresses, passwords, alpha-numerical data, etc.). Data is also chopped into very small bits and stripped of sequence data so it cannot be put back together or identified. The data samplings collected are limite…

> Microsoft does not collect any personal information via inking or typing.... That's claim that cannot be verified. Until Microsoft provides a clear, unobfuscated method to verify what is being sent, and also option to 100% disable all phoning home, there will be a suspicion of their own making. Anything other is just obfuscation and PR.

Why don't you set a breakpoint just before it encrypts what it's collected, peek in memory and find out for yourself?

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#35

Post by vetinari »

kw71 wrote: post #34
vetinari wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft does not collect any personal information via inking or typing.... That's claim that cannot be verified. Until Microsoft provides a clear, unobfuscated method to verify what is being sent, and also option to 100% disable all phoning home, there will be a suspicion of their own making. Anything other is just obfuscation and PR.

Why don't you set a breakpoint just before it encrypts what it's collected, peek in memory and find out for yourself?

That it the market Microsoft is aiming for? Will your grandma do it? Or she doesn't need the transparency and fair dealing?

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#36

Post by foo101 »

vetinari wrote: post #35
kw71 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you set a breakpoint just before it encrypts what it's collected, peek in memory and find out for yourself?

That it the market Microsoft is aiming for? Will your grandma do it? Or she doesn't need the transparency and fair dealing?

Your grandma comment is misguided. Your parent comment has a good point.

If a system is sending out sensitive data, there is a way to figure it out by setting breakpoints and reverse engineering the payload that is getting encrypted.

Once a researcher finds whether or not sensitive data is being sent, the researcher can publish the information so that your grandma can know about it and she can have the transparency and fair dealing she needs.

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#37

Post by vfclists »

polack wrote: post #8

"Last week, Microsoft’s Digital Crimes Unit (DCU) successfully executed a court order to disrupt and transfer control of six internet domains..." What does this mean? Was the domains hosted on Microsoft DNS servers? Or did Microsoft get a court order to go after domains hosted by other companies? I'm probably missing something, but isn't that the job of the police?

This seems similar to the scheme in which Microsoft diverted the no-ip.com DNS to their servers some legal shenanigans, namely some system of being able to get a judgement without informing the owner of the domain they were going after.

Ars Technica http://bit.ly/2whNn9x, zdnet https://zd.net/2MLdcZU

Since when did they become the policemen of the internet. and do the judges who authorize these things have an understanding of the internet at all?

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#38

Post by v_lisivka »

chvid wrote: post #33

Because who better than Microsoft to save our democracy? I can't think of anyone ... oh wait ... I can! What about Apple and Google? Yes. Please. Apple, Microsoft and Google - together - save our democracies! You are the only ones who can. Thank you. -- the little people

You forgot about FakeBook. In my country, FaceBook bans users if their posts mention certain politic (Henadii Moskal). For the sake of democracy, of course.

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#39

Post by lagadu »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #14
montenegrohugo wrote: post #3

"It’s clear that democracies around the world are under attack. Foreign entities are launching cyber strikes to disrupt elections and sow discord. Unfortunately, the internet has become an avenue for some governments to steal and leak information, spread disinformation, and probe and potentially attempt to tamper with voting systems. We saw this during the United States general election in 2016, last May during the F…

It's not a political position. It's a statement of fact (excluding your presumption, which wasn't implied in the article) supported by both national political parties and the sitting president. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/us/politics/trump-putin-r...

> supported by both national political parties and the sitting president.

This coming from a company from a country that can barely be considered to be democratic and that has the largest modern track record of interfering with foreign states' elections means that it holds very little value.

Re: We are taking new steps against broadening threats to democracy

#40

Post by vetinari »

foo101 wrote: post #36
vetinari wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That it the market Microsoft is aiming for? Will your grandma do it? Or she doesn't need the transparency and fair dealing?

Your grandma comment is misguided. Your parent comment has a good point. If a system is sending out sensitive data, there is a way to figure it out by setting breakpoints and reverse engineering the payload that is getting encrypted. Once a researcher finds whether or not sensitive data is being sent, the researcher can publish the information so that your grandma can know about it and she can have the transparency a…

Or, you know, demand from the vendor to supply a system that doesn't need a researcher, who was able to secure a funding for such an endeavor.

Meanwhile, the point still stands: windows phones home, sends out the data, which are encrypted in transport, obfuscated inside, and the user has zero control about it. Requiring the user to prove which data were send and which weren't is dishonest; it is the vendor who has the source code and knows exactly the answer for what is being asked of the user.

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