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MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

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Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#31

Post by smnrchrds »

kosei wrote: post #27
smnrchrds wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company actually made false statements, it would be illegal. They should have known better than to believe me is not a valid defence for securities fraud.

Sure, if they falsified their books, that's absolutely illegal. But "they told me their business model was sustainable, and I believed them and gave them my money" doesn't seem like a reasonable argument either. If that's how those investors fund their companies, I've got this nifty bag of magic beans they might be interested in... For $1M, they'll grow $2M in beans, I promise!

> For $1M, they'll grow $2M in beans, I promise!

You are reinforcing my point. If you do that, it would be fraud, plain and simple. You would have to pay the investors back and you will spend a couple of years in prison. You can't show up to the court and say, but your honour, they should have known better. Well, you can, but it would not change the court's decision in your favour.

Communications with the investors is not a place to play loose. If you say we are profitable and you are not, or we are sustainable and you are not, or we have a buyer lined up and you do not, you would find yourself in a world of trouble.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#32

Post by oblib »

SN76477 wrote: post #6

I think MoviePass has been successful in showing that the industry needs a shakeup. I dont know what their monetization model was, I dont think they knew what it was.

I pondered that a bit when I first heard about them. It must be they looked at the number of movies the "fanatic" pays to see, and the number of movies the average person pays to see, per year.

I'm guessing they figured the fanatics would cause enough buzz about their service to convince the average person to subscribe and when enough did they'd turn a profit.

They may have created a formula where they estimated those lines would cross, but at best that would be a "known unknown" and I don't see how an "investor" could fail to realize that. You either have faith that goal can be achieved, or you don't, and faith in such matters is known to be risky.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#33

Post by toast0 »

drawkbox wrote: post #10

In the end a service like MoviePass will be needed, noone wants one just tied to one theater chain most likely though it will be that way for a while if not indefinitely. It looks like this iteration of a movie service independent of movie theaters just won't be it. As it has been said, theaters are empty much of the time and they make major margins from their concessions. You'd think more of them would have gone for…

I don't think being tied to a single chain is too big of a deal. Everywhere I've lived there's really been one dominant chain, and usually an alternate chain. Almost always, I go to only one or two theaters, so it wouldn't be a big deal to be stuck to one place. It's different than say, I probably wouldn't want to pay for watch all the Warner Bros movies you want, because I would like to have a variety of studios

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#34

Post by drawkbox »

jrs95 wrote: post #18
drawkbox wrote: post #10

In the end a service like MoviePass will be needed, noone wants one just tied to one theater chain most likely though it will be that way for a while if not indefinitely. It looks like this iteration of a movie service independent of movie theaters just won't be it. As it has been said, theaters are empty much of the time and they make major margins from their concessions. You'd think more of them would have gone for…

Honestly nevermind being tied to one theater chain, I wouldn’t mind being tied to one theater. I go to the same one almost all of the time anyways. And even if I didn’t, there are enough AMCs around that it’s not much of a value add for me to have something that works at different chains.

Plenty of customers probably don't mind, but the moment they will mind is when they want to see a movie that is sold out at one of their common theaters and go to another theater not in the same chain.

People do tend to use the same theaters except for special runs of movies or when movies are so big that you might need to go to another theater due to sold out showings at your favorites.

I could see this non-issue of theater locked programs being heavily complained about when those types of customers get in that situation.

The other problem I see with theater locked ones it that they give special treatment like cut in lines and such that may turn off non program patrons to a certain theater.

Independent products just seem to also have the customer in mind more than the brand/theater itself, plus it creates competition for these customers if concessions is tied to it.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#35

Post by fullshark »

SN76477 wrote: post #6

I think MoviePass has been successful in showing that the industry needs a shakeup. I dont know what their monetization model was, I dont think they knew what it was.

I'm guessing the main thing they proved is that there's a small subset of movie fanatics that would see every movie released, some multiple times if they didn't have to pay. They figured out the size of this market and it probably was what killed them i'm guessing.

Like X% of movie pass subscribers saw 10+ movies a month. What was the size of X?

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#36

Post by devoply »

paxys wrote: post #30

MoviePass (incorrectly) assumed it would be able to strike sweetheart deals with all theater chains, thus drastically reducing overall costs. It even sounds good in theory - why wouldn't the theater want to get paid for seats that would have otherwise gone empty and have more people inside buying concessions? It could even have worked - maybe five or ten years ago. Now the theaters themselves quickly realized the val…

> It's similar to how Netflix would never exist had it started out today, because no studio would surrender their back-catalogs to them for pennies.

I personally doubt the longevity of Netflix. On it's own it's not much more than a cable channel, like say AMC. Its success depends on producing very good content... it has not mastered this at all. Over time most studios will back out of their deals with it.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#37

Post by cncrnd »

michaelchisari wrote: post #11
SN76477 wrote: post #6

I think MoviePass has been successful in showing that the industry needs a shakeup. I dont know what their monetization model was, I dont think they knew what it was.

But every industry can be shaken up if you're willing to give things away effectively for free with VC money. I don't know if that translates to proving an industry needs a shakeup.

Think of it not as a shake up, but as a wealth transfer from investors to the proletariat.

It's like how Uber has been giving me $3 rides while it posts losses 1/3 of revenue.

I should send VCs a thank you card, those loveable dummies!

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#38

Post by diab0lic »

swozey wrote: post #26
jrs95 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly nevermind being tied to one theater chain, I wouldn’t mind being tied to one theater. I go to the same one almost all of the time anyways. And even if I didn’t, there are enough AMCs around that it’s not much of a value add for me to have something that works at different chains.

I live in a city with Alamo Drafthouses and I refuse to ever visit an AMC/Regal/etc after moving here. I'm fine with them making their own monthly payment programs.

I went to one of these with a friend last year and it has spoiled me for standard theatres. Would definitely pay a subscription if there was one near my place.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#39

Post by exelius »

devoply wrote: post #36
paxys wrote: post #30

MoviePass (incorrectly) assumed it would be able to strike sweetheart deals with all theater chains, thus drastically reducing overall costs. It even sounds good in theory - why wouldn't the theater want to get paid for seats that would have otherwise gone empty and have more people inside buying concessions? It could even have worked - maybe five or ten years ago. Now the theaters themselves quickly realized the val…

> It's similar to how Netflix would never exist had it started out today, because no studio would surrender their back-catalogs to them for pennies. I personally doubt the longevity of Netflix. On it's own it's not much more than a cable channel, like say AMC. Its success depends on producing very good content... it has not mastered this at all. Over time most studios will back out of their deals with it.

It’s more like HBO, but yes, I agree. In fact, Netflix has largely become HBO while HBO was becoming Netflix, so they’re largely the same at this point.

VOD services are here to stay, and the catalog shifting will continue in order to maximize value. Netflix is doing it at least as well as anyone else.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#40

Post by michaelchisari »

cncrnd wrote: post #37
michaelchisari wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But every industry can be shaken up if you're willing to give things away effectively for free with VC money. I don't know if that translates to proving an industry needs a shakeup.

Think of it not as a shake up, but as a wealth transfer from investors to the proletariat. It's like how Uber has been giving me $3 rides while it posts losses 1/3 of revenue. I should send VCs a thank you card, those loveable dummies!

I'm not opposed to wealth transfer from investors to proles, I just wish it was more sustainable.

And maybe in the form of health care and not movie tickets. :)

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