Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#31

Post by drb91 » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #26

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

extensions.pocket.enabled => FALSE is what you're talking about, right? Why the hell is a bloody plugin compiled in with a browser?! I should be able to click "delete" on the plugin screen and purge this trashheap from my system. I shouldn't have to use "hope and prayer" that a plugin isn't used. Instead, I have to go traipsing in about:config. It's not even in preferences, or plugins, or wherever.

It's not a plugin, it's a browser feature, like bookmarks and the web inspector.

The line between plugins and features is only useful if it's meaningful. Pocket is, by every appearance, a bookmark service. Why is that integrated into the browser? There's already Firefox Sync. It should be opt-in; I'm in agreement here.

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#32

Post by addicted » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

dralley wrote: post #8

Since there are a lot of more hyperbolic articles from "ghacks" and similar ilk going around, I feel compelled to point out straight away that this is explicitly opt-in. You not only have to install the Test Pilot addon, which is not installed by default, but you then have to enable the experiment. The sky is not falling just because they're offering something like this locked behind two separate opt-in steps.

This is basically what the likes of Google and MS are doing already anyways.

I appreciate that Firefox has made this something users have to opt in to, and explicitly enable, and explained that the data is shared with a 3rd party in non legalese.

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#33

Post by fpgaminer » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

Let's talk about the knee-jerk reaction we are all probably having right now: "Muh privacy!"

It's hard not to have that reaction. A couple days ago there was a front page post on HN about the DNS-Over-HTTPS features that Mozilla is experimenting with. Mozilla has this storied history of community reactions. So perhaps we can all be forgiven for being on edge with Firefox. Our news feed makes it seem like Mozilla is out to get you.

And yet, none of these stories ever end up bearing fruit. How often has Mozilla _actually_ violated your privacy. When rubber meets the road, Firefox is in many ways the most pro-user-privacy browser on the market.

Not to mention all the other work that Mozilla does. Common Voice (https://voice.mozilla.org/en) is an amazing project that could completely change the game for user privacy in the IoT industry. Let's Encrypt stepped up the level of encryption on the internet by an order of magnitude, and it did so for free when everyone else was gouging us. Rust is making many bugs a thing of the past, which will lead to far fewer instances of user data being leaked by security bugs.

Yet through all this work that Mozilla does to fight _for_ you, they get shit on by news articles and in these comment sections. Meanwhile Chrome, which we _know_ is harvesting our data, gets no news.

Perhaps it is because we hold Mozilla to a higher standard. We are used to Google's abuse with Chrome, so we don't talk about it. But any move by Mozilla that could possibly be misconstrued as them becoming corrupt raises all our alarms.

Or perhaps the Firefox team is simply struggling with PR. After all, these last two news worthy incidences are really just issues with communication. Firefox _isn't_ sending all your DNS queries and browsing history off into wonderland. These are experiments. But it seems like a lot of people miss that point. So maybe it's just a communication issue.

Or maybe this all has to do with Mozilla being open. When Google experiments, they do so mostly in secret. Mozilla's transparency might be making them easy targets for sloppy news.

Either way, my point is that a lot of us are happy to throw Mozilla under the bus at the slightest hint of corruption, but we never take the time to appreciate the good work they've done (for free, by the way).

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#34

Post by smacktoward » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

tapoxi wrote: post #21

I don't get how this relates to Mozilla's mission, I especially don't understand how technologies that are core to their mission (open communication with Thunderbird, open identity with Persona) are left abandoned. I'm not offended by the extension, I'm more befuddled why they're wasting their time and money on something very few people want. My friends/social network are going to suggest cool stuff to read, not some…

The really mystifying part is that one of the key value propositions of Firefox is "here is a browser that respects your privacy," and yet Mozilla keeps flirting with bolting things on to Firefox that actively undermine that value proposition. They repeatedly sabotage the success of their only product! It's astounding.

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#35

Post by jstarfish » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #34

tapoxi wrote: post #21

I don't get how this relates to Mozilla's mission, I especially don't understand how technologies that are core to their mission (open communication with Thunderbird, open identity with Persona) are left abandoned. I'm not offended by the extension, I'm more befuddled why they're wasting their time and money on something very few people want. My friends/social network are going to suggest cool stuff to read, not some…

The really mystifying part is that one of the key value propositions of Firefox is "here is a browser that respects your privacy," and yet Mozilla keeps flirting with bolting things on to Firefox that actively undermine that value proposition. They repeatedly sabotage the success of their only product! It's astounding.

It reeks of a lack of integrity. They say they respect your privacy, but the fact that they're considering things like this in the first place means their convictions are negotiable.

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#36

Post by megaman22 » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #34

tapoxi wrote: post #21

I don't get how this relates to Mozilla's mission, I especially don't understand how technologies that are core to their mission (open communication with Thunderbird, open identity with Persona) are left abandoned. I'm not offended by the extension, I'm more befuddled why they're wasting their time and money on something very few people want. My friends/social network are going to suggest cool stuff to read, not some…

The really mystifying part is that one of the key value propositions of Firefox is "here is a browser that respects your privacy," and yet Mozilla keeps flirting with bolting things on to Firefox that actively undermine that value proposition. They repeatedly sabotage the success of their only product! It's astounding.

It's too much to hope that products could just focus on doing what they do, and doing it well, rather than bodging on miscellaneous shit until it resembles the Homermobile.

Build a browser. Implement the standards fully. Make it scream. That's your job.

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#37

Post by GordonS » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

seren wrote: post #24

StavrosK wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We have also included controls so that participants can pause the experiment, see what browser history Laserlike has about them, or request deletion of that information.” Where the hell are these controls? Since I installed this thing before reading that it'd send my data to some party, like an idiot, I'd like to request deletion of the data now, but I can't for the life of me find any sort of interface for it. What…

So this is a violation of GDPR as well ?

You have to consent to use this, and Mozilla tell you exactly what information you are providing and what happens with it - how exactly does this violate the GDPR?

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#38

Post by GordonS » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

drb91 wrote: post #31

icebraining wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a plugin, it's a browser feature, like bookmarks and the web inspector.

The line between plugins and features is only useful if it's meaningful. Pocket is, by every appearance, a bookmark service. Why is that integrated into the browser? There's already Firefox Sync. It should be opt-in; I'm in agreement here.

I really like Pocket and use it all the time, but I still agree that it should be offered as a plugin, rather than built-in to the browser.

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#39

Post by _8j50 » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

tapoxi wrote: post #21

I don't get how this relates to Mozilla's mission, I especially don't understand how technologies that are core to their mission (open communication with Thunderbird, open identity with Persona) are left abandoned. I'm not offended by the extension, I'm more befuddled why they're wasting their time and money on something very few people want. My friends/social network are going to suggest cool stuff to read, not some…

Money? Are you paying for any of their products? Relying on Google's payment for selecting them as a search engine only goes so far...

They should really come up with paid services insted of these schemes.

Re: Firefox Offers Recommendations with Latest Test Pilot Experiment: Advance

#40

Post by ve55 » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

fpgaminer wrote: post #33

Let's talk about the knee-jerk reaction we are all probably having right now: "Muh privacy!" It's hard not to have that reaction. A couple days ago there was a front page post on HN about the DNS-Over-HTTPS features that Mozilla is experimenting with. Mozilla has this storied history of community reactions. So perhaps we can all be forgiven for being on edge with Firefox. Our news feed makes it seem like Mozilla is o…

Yes, Firefox is held to a higher standard of user privacy than Chrome. This is how it should be given that Chrome is a product made by one of the largest for-profit surveilliance and advertising companies that has ever existed.

Firefox has constantly violated my expectations of privacy in many ways, by removing important features, adding tracking in many locations (including Google Analytics on internal browser pages), and adding copious amounts of worthless features that use dark patterns in order to convince the user to hand over their data (Firefox accounts, Pocket, 'Take a Screenshot', many more)