Young people don’t want construction jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#31

Post by tw1010 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:44 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #11

Wow, the entire article doesn't mention once what the average wage for entry-level construction workers is. That's probably a huge part of the puzzle -- to omit that seems almost intentionally misleading, or at least bad journalism. Also, construction is a job that's notoriously hard on your body. You can't count on being able to do it into your 60s like office work, and one bad accident can end your career in constr…

They do mention wage, but they don't seem to agree with what you think they are "a job that is generally well-paid".

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#32

Post by OldSchoolJohnny » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #22

What's the endgame for construction workers? Everyone can't move into management. Many people's bodies can't handle that kind of manual labor for 40 years, and even if they could construction jobs tend to be insecure. If you want people to make those trade offs you have to pay more. This kind of rhetoric from companies drives me nuts. They push to remove regulations, but when the free market says they have to pay mor…

The end game used to be wealthy retirement because it paid extremely well. And on a side note people's bodies can and do handle that kind of manual labour for 40+ years. Not all of course, some get hurt, some are not cut out for it, but go to any manual work site and you will see older people in their 50's and 60's still in excellent physical shape doing it and younger people doing the really hard shitty jobs since time immemorial.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#33

Post by johnvega » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

3D printing construction tech should be a great way to offset this. Also great for space explorations.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#34

Post by NegativeK » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

yellowcherry wrote: post #23

tekstar wrote: post #10

These types of jobs eventually burn out your body. You used to be able to buy a house and grow a family on these wages, and eventually retire. With that no longer being the case, why would anyone with choice choose this option?

My dad did these jobs his whole life. He's in still in better shape than I've ever been and has a union pension better than anything any company has ever offered me. So.

Many states don't have unions.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#35

Post by 49531 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #28

dccoolgai wrote: post #8

Why would they? You've spent the last 30 years telling them not to do those jobs, devaluing them with globalization and de-unionizing them to make sure those jobs don't create any kind of sustainable lifestyle for the people that do them. Someone on HN a while back gave some good advice: whenever you see "people won't do X job", append in your mind the qualifier "for Y underpaid salary/benefits package".

And part of telling them not to do those jobs was the college for everyone idea. It was a good ideal, but the problem is, going to college and getting that English 4-year degree doesn't really help you get a job that pays enough to pay off those student loans and save for retirement. What they said on Prairie Home Companion was correct, everyone does thing their child is exceptional and should go to college instead o…

I agree that stigmatizing trades has contributed to this issue, but we've also simultaneously made trades worse by allowing their unions to decay and be deregulating the industries that use them.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#36

Post by PantaloonFlames » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #18

I'd love to work construction. But every time I've mentioned it to my family they tell me about how it will destroy my knees and back, I'll lose fingers, get hearing damage, head injuries, and the pay is crap compared to the risk. If there was decent workplace safety (my hometown is infamous for it's poor safety standards), and a good pension program where you're expected to want to quit and do something else after 1…

Good point about the pension (or other retirement provision).

You won't lose fingers or lose your hearing if you take proper care. You won't destroy your back if you stay in shape. There are pressures to do the wrong thing. People can resist them. There are risks; this is why people wear hardhats and steel-toed boots on worksites. But the risks can be managed.

The pay remains .. a challenge.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#37

Post by stealthmodeclan » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

Why not bring labor on demand from South Asia or Africa.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#38

Post by krapp » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #22

What's the endgame for construction workers? Everyone can't move into management. Many people's bodies can't handle that kind of manual labor for 40 years, and even if they could construction jobs tend to be insecure. If you want people to make those trade offs you have to pay more. This kind of rhetoric from companies drives me nuts. They push to remove regulations, but when the free market says they have to pay mor…

The endgame is being replaced by automation.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#39

Post by throwaway5752 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

yellowcherry wrote: post #23

tekstar wrote: post #10

These types of jobs eventually burn out your body. You used to be able to buy a house and grow a family on these wages, and eventually retire. With that no longer being the case, why would anyone with choice choose this option?

My dad did these jobs his whole life. He's in still in better shape than I've ever been and has a union pension better than anything any company has ever offered me. So.

So, try to start out as a new person in that area of construction unless it's highly specialized (line work, specialized welding, specialized fabrication, large machine operation with specialized licensure or training...)

Generally speaking, the old pension plans are only for those grandfathered in, new pay scales are lower, and hours to get better service time and benefits are higher.

Also, watch what companies do in terms of carving off subsidiaries with more of their retirees for intentional bankruptcy (see Patriot Coal). Those benefits will be cut in chapter 11 and then offloaded to the PBGC to be paid by the public.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#40

Post by PantaloonFlames » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:49 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #30

CydeWeys wrote: post #11

Wow, the entire article doesn't mention once what the average wage for entry-level construction workers is. That's probably a huge part of the puzzle -- to omit that seems almost intentionally misleading, or at least bad journalism. Also, construction is a job that's notoriously hard on your body. You can't count on being able to do it into your 60s like office work, and one bad accident can end your career in constr…

Seems like $14.07. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Labore... Even "Construction Worker" doesn't bring it up much ($14.75), which means there's nothing in that career directly. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Worker... The next step in that career is to be a manager or foreman. The Foreman only gets $22.36. ($38k/yr) https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Fore…

As with any field, specialized skills command higher pay.

Plenty of opportunity to learn a proper skill, like drywall finishing, electrical work, plumbing, or carpentry/cabinetry, and command better than $15/hr in the USA.