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A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

quantamagazine.org

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Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#31

Post by toomanybeersies »

n4r9 wrote: post #13
MisterTea wrote: post #3

I've held this theory on my own after experiencing geometric shapes while hallucinating after smoking a lot of marijuana years back. I sat down closed my eyes and experienced an intense feeling of flying through what I can only explain as the starfield screen saver from Windows but with colored 2D shapes heavily dominated by hexagons of various sizes. During that experience I realized that I might be experiencing the…

I've mentioned this before on HN, but I don't understand why SAH is seen as a "solid" theory. Psychedelics might increase some cognitive or perceptual faculties, but McKenna never gives any physical mechanics for how this could possibly lead to genetic alteration, i.e. how it creates any selection pressure for intelligence.

Intelligence isn't only influenced by genetics, but also by how an animal (human or not) is reared.

If you raise a dog in complete social isolation (not even human contact) it will be unable to cope in the outside world. The same applies to people, if a baby is raised with no interaction, they will not be capable of functioning as a normal human. There's a very well written, Pulitzer Prize winning article on one such case in Florida: http://www.tampabay.com/projects/girl-in-the-window/danielle...

I think that a convincing argument could be made that psychedelics could work to kick-start this mental expansion. There are plenty of stories of people suddenly being able to understand complex abstract concepts after using psychedelic drugs.

That's not to say that I believe that the Stoned Ape Hypothesis is "solid", I haven't done any research into it to be able to make that judgement, but it is plausible.

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#32

Post by hanoz »

MisterTea wrote: post #3

I've held this theory on my own after experiencing geometric shapes while hallucinating after smoking a lot of marijuana years back. I sat down closed my eyes and experienced an intense feeling of flying through what I can only explain as the starfield screen saver from Windows but with colored 2D shapes heavily dominated by hexagons of various sizes. During that experience I realized that I might be experiencing the…

Wait, what, doesn't everyone see these same geometric patterns merely by closing their eyes tight?

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#33

Post by fallingfrog »

hanoz wrote: post #32
MisterTea wrote: post #3

I've held this theory on my own after experiencing geometric shapes while hallucinating after smoking a lot of marijuana years back. I sat down closed my eyes and experienced an intense feeling of flying through what I can only explain as the starfield screen saver from Windows but with colored 2D shapes heavily dominated by hexagons of various sizes. During that experience I realized that I might be experiencing the…

Wait, what, doesn't everyone see these same geometric patterns merely by closing their eyes tight?

Ow thanks for the suggestion, now I have a headache

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#34

Post by fallingfrog »

machiavelli1024 wrote: post #7
MisterTea wrote: post #3

I've held this theory on my own after experiencing geometric shapes while hallucinating after smoking a lot of marijuana years back. I sat down closed my eyes and experienced an intense feeling of flying through what I can only explain as the starfield screen saver from Windows but with colored 2D shapes heavily dominated by hexagons of various sizes. During that experience I realized that I might be experiencing the…

I had a similar experience when I forgot to take my SNRI antidepressant. I woke up in the middle of the night, and when I tried to continue sleeping I had these ultra-detailed geometric patterns dancing before me. The visuals were nice, but then my ears started ringing too which started bothering me, so I opened my eyes and woke up completely, which stopped the visuals and the ringing.

If I'm woken up right in the middle of very intense R.E.M. sleep I'll sometimes see geometric patterns for a little while.

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#35

Post by fallingfrog »

mailslot wrote: post #14

If you stay partially aware as you fall asleep, you’ll see a ton of geometric hallucinations. It’s just the way things work.

Happens to me more upon waking up. But it's a cool phenomenon either way, and to my mind it's an indication that tripping is a normal thing for the human brain to do sometimes, and probably not harmful.

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#36

Post by [deleted] »

n4r9 wrote: post #28
sissyFuss wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Stoned Ape Hypothesis (sah) is reasonable within the context of a social lawlessness found in the state of nature. The chaos of the animal kingdom would permit the transgression of norms among primates, with little consequence, and it wouldn't matter as much for animals to be indulging in mind altering substances, if other needs were all essentially met by the surrounding environment. Evolutionary theory…

I'm aware of the theory, but there's a big conceptual leap between paragraphs 6 and 7 which McKenna never addresses. Why should the presence of psychedelics change mating strategies so as to select specifically for larger brain size?

[deleted]

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#37

Post by [deleted] »

n4r9 wrote: post #28
sissyFuss wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Stoned Ape Hypothesis (sah) is reasonable within the context of a social lawlessness found in the state of nature. The chaos of the animal kingdom would permit the transgression of norms among primates, with little consequence, and it wouldn't matter as much for animals to be indulging in mind altering substances, if other needs were all essentially met by the surrounding environment. Evolutionary theory…

I'm aware of the theory, but there's a big conceptual leap between paragraphs 6 and 7 which McKenna never addresses. Why should the presence of psychedelics change mating strategies so as to select specifically for larger brain size?

[deleted]

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#38

Post by [deleted] »

n4r9 wrote: post #28
sissyFuss wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Stoned Ape Hypothesis (sah) is reasonable within the context of a social lawlessness found in the state of nature. The chaos of the animal kingdom would permit the transgression of norms among primates, with little consequence, and it wouldn't matter as much for animals to be indulging in mind altering substances, if other needs were all essentially met by the surrounding environment. Evolutionary theory…

I'm aware of the theory, but there's a big conceptual leap between paragraphs 6 and 7 which McKenna never addresses. Why should the presence of psychedelics change mating strategies so as to select specifically for larger brain size?

[deleted]

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#39

Post by [deleted] »

n4r9 wrote: post #28
sissyFuss wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Stoned Ape Hypothesis (sah) is reasonable within the context of a social lawlessness found in the state of nature. The chaos of the animal kingdom would permit the transgression of norms among primates, with little consequence, and it wouldn't matter as much for animals to be indulging in mind altering substances, if other needs were all essentially met by the surrounding environment. Evolutionary theory…

I'm aware of the theory, but there's a big conceptual leap between paragraphs 6 and 7 which McKenna never addresses. Why should the presence of psychedelics change mating strategies so as to select specifically for larger brain size?

[deleted]

Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate

#40

Post by sissyFuss »

n4r9 wrote: post #28
sissyFuss wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Stoned Ape Hypothesis (sah) is reasonable within the context of a social lawlessness found in the state of nature. The chaos of the animal kingdom would permit the transgression of norms among primates, with little consequence, and it wouldn't matter as much for animals to be indulging in mind altering substances, if other needs were all essentially met by the surrounding environment. Evolutionary theory…

I'm aware of the theory, but there's a big conceptual leap between paragraphs 6 and 7 which McKenna never addresses. Why should the presence of psychedelics change mating strategies so as to select specifically for larger brain size?

So this is the part of evolutionary theory that can never really give up the ghost. There are non-deterministic/non-linear forces at work, which may or may not divulge direct evidence of sequential events.

Why did some primates emerge with brains twice the size of their ancestors, over many thousands of generations, during the course of several million years?

This hypothesis can only fit inside the huge knowledge gap. Many times, accelerated evolutionary changes signify arms races and bottle necks. An arms race like the Cambrian explosion has lots of things happening at the same time, a form of evolutionary tit-for-tat game. A bottle neck is something like the dinosaurs disappearing. The invasive species concept is, many times, kind of in between.

Since we can't access or develop a perfect map of primate migration patterns from an ideal fossil record of all historic skull sizes over time, demonstrating how the expanding brain case trend took shape, the details for the specific drivers of these changes are unclear.

We have a grand canyon sized void of information, and all we can really do is consider bridge designs that utilize natural forces to connect the empty space separating both sides. Figure, maybe, the stoned ape concept is like some epic beaver dam between us and our predecessors.

Since the human brain is an unprecedented organ, we have few avenues for corollaries. Like the big bang theory, we'll get stuck with whatever idea connects the most dots, fits inside the knowledge gap, whether it ousts other ideas or not.

Even if incorrect, the big bang fits what we see, but can never tell us why time started at all, if material existence truly began as a singularity, or whether something existed prior to moment zero. It may be that the big bang is an event that can only be obscuring prior information, due to some unknowable cosmological process that destroyed any such information predating this mysterious expansion event. Perhaps some crunch or freeze, reduced the sampleable scope of the universe we inhabit and currently observe into a pin-prick singularity we are forced to guess only broad, basic details about. How would we inform ourselves of what exists beyond the observable universe, or learn of events prior to a moment that destroyed all preceding facts or information?

As a hypothetical idea, the stoned ape hypothesis will always deal in uncertainty, at least until we discover the next ground-breaking evidence that changes the current picture. Same with the big bang: we can't really know if it's correct, so much as we can only deal in observable facts evident to our perspective, and that can be unsatisfying.

If multiple stories fit inside an evidence-starved narrative (brains doubling in size), these competing stories will sit deadlocked until a tie-breaker appears, usually with the most easily reasoned hypothesis carrying preference until rendered untenable. Science and institutional academia often shuns juicy excitement, which is where this theory's incredible story is found wanting of incredible evidence.

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