This owns. It's important to realize that a lot of at-risk populations that would most benefit from medication are often the most economically disadvantaged, and that our current healthcare system often excludes them from the help they need. Obviously, lab-grade medication is less risky than stuff that's been produced in a mason jar, but when the choice is between having access to life-saving medical equipment or not, the choice is pretty clear. If you have concerns with how this could hurt people, then the best solution would be to make sure that everyone has access to the care they need, rather then allocating care on the basis of how much they can afford.
The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
31–40 of 142 posts
Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#32> “The rhetoric that is espoused by people who defend intellectual property law is that this is theft,” Laufer told me. “If you accept that axiomatically, then by the same logic when you withhold access to lifesaving medication that's murder. From a moral standpoint it's an imperative to enact theft to prevent murder.” If it's murder to apply intellectual property law and withhold drugs...what do we call the untold n…
Right. Because exorbitant profit is the only motivation for research.
Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#33> “The rhetoric that is espoused by people who defend intellectual property law is that this is theft,” Laufer told me. “If you accept that axiomatically, then by the same logic when you withhold access to lifesaving medication that's murder. From a moral standpoint it's an imperative to enact theft to prevent murder.” If it's murder to apply intellectual property law and withhold drugs...what do we call the untold n…
Right. Because exorbitant profit is the only motivation for research.
Someone has to buy the lab equipment and pay the scientists. If you think their profit is 'exorbitant', then you should be investing in pharma. But historically and as a whole, they generate returns comparable to the rest of industry.
Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#34> “The rhetoric that is espoused by people who defend intellectual property law is that this is theft,” Laufer told me. “If you accept that axiomatically, then by the same logic when you withhold access to lifesaving medication that's murder. From a moral standpoint it's an imperative to enact theft to prevent murder.” If it's murder to apply intellectual property law and withhold drugs...what do we call the untold n…
I see your point but I think that there is a middle ground to be struck here. I don't think medical care and drug research can be ethically applied upon the basis of economic motivation alone. Through this lens Laufer makes some sense. You raise a strong and valid counterpoint however. There is currently a huge profit motive to develop new medical treatments (so long as they are indeed profitable). What will the effe…
Yep, totally agree. I think people get mad when they see that a cure for a disease exists that they can't have. They don't think about the institutions that created it in the first place. On the other hand, I think we could do a better job at providing medicines to people who genuinely cannot pay, or cannot obtain it for some odd reason (like the company stopped making it).
Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#35Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
RAR files can be cracked offline.
Sure, but "password protected website" is a weird synonym for "RAR file".
The RAR file was posted on a “dark web” site. The password needing to be cracked is the one on the RAR file itself, not the site.
Source: I was at the HOPE talk he gave and also talked to Michael at the conference about it too.
Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well if we could just rich people to find their projects. /s
Ok. Let's imagine a world where he achieves his dream. We've democratized access to molecular synthesis with no quality issues. Anyone, anywhere can safely and effectively produce any medicine of their choosing, without regard for IP laws. Now what? Well, on the one hand, everyone on earth will have cheap, timely access to every medicine that currently exists. That's pretty awesome. On the other hand, who's going to…
A large proportion of pharmaceutical development is funded (directly or indirectly) by public funds. There's a very strong argument that single-payer healthcare systems should issue a blanket moratorium on buying new patented medicines and direct the funds to research. Major pharmaceutical companies spend significantly more on marketing than on R&D, so it'd be a net win for the taxpayer if they just paid for drug development directly.
Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#38An interesting approach to the criminal lack of healthcare to vulnerable populations in the US (and potentially other places with third world health systems)
Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. Because exorbitant profit is the only motivation for research.
Someone has to buy the lab equipment and pay the scientists. If you think their profit is 'exorbitant', then you should be investing in pharma. But historically and as a whole, they generate returns comparable to the rest of industry.
Returns comparable. That doesn't mean the rest of the money is all lab equipment. Pharma ends up poaching work developed at Universities.
Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective
#40This is truly amazing work, and I hope they are able to achieve their goals. The future of humanity depends on it. If you want to help, they need someone to crack a rar file containing the Chematica data (which was acquired by Merck pharmaceuticals) https://twitter.com/MichaelSLaufer/status/102263726560276889...
I hate to be negative. But I have seen enough of these sort of initiative over the years to be skeptical. In reality it seldom makes sense to do it yourself. Few things in general needs to be built or invented. If they do chances are they aren't the ones to do it. It almost always makes more sense acquire the capability to do what you want somewhere else. But as soon as you do that all the edgy rhetoric and potential goes out the window in favor of liability and reality. So reality eventually becomes the enemy of the escapist fantasy. And the powerful remain powerful while the real problems go unsolved. I would very much like to be wrong though.