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We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

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31–40 of 108 posts

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#31
post #25
post #17

I find it amusing that we're worried about the potential of fake video/audio. Like everything would be just be fine if it weren't for that possibility. Deep fakes haven't really shown up in the wild as a significant threat and we already have large swaths of society that can't agree on the truth. Certainly fake media isn't going to help any, but folks, we're ALREADY fucked.

The Vox article is also making a nuanced point -- that memory is constructed subconsciously. So the insidious thing? Creating 100 videos with only slight political position adjustments, and thereby (even if the videos are later revealed as fakes!) shifting a voter's "gut" impression of a candidate. I'd be amazed if we don't start seeing audio & video cryptographic authentication in the next 10 years. The subject of a…

I think audio/video authentication is gonna be huge also. One thought would be merkle proof of hashes of the keyframes and then a signature of the merkle root. drop that bad boy into an eos / eth contract.

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#32
post #21
post #5

We are entering a period where nothing not directly sampled by one's five senses can be trusted. Any electronically recorded evidence can easily be faked and often using off the shelf consumer-grade equipment and software.

Check out the "You Are No So Smart" podcast. The author goes through all of the ways that our brain can be tricked/is tricked in daily life. https://youarenotsosmart.com/ For example, in one episode [ https://youarenotsosmart.com/2016/10/09/yanss-085-memory-ill... ]: "Julia Shaw’s research demonstrates the fact that there is no reason to believe a memory is more accurate just because it is vivid or detailed. Actually…

That podcast is great. Should also be required listening for anyone who does any kind of investment. One reason people keep falling for the same scams over and over is that they think they're too smart to fall for a scam.

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#33
post #17

I find it amusing that we're worried about the potential of fake video/audio. Like everything would be just be fine if it weren't for that possibility. Deep fakes haven't really shown up in the wild as a significant threat and we already have large swaths of society that can't agree on the truth. Certainly fake media isn't going to help any, but folks, we're ALREADY fucked.

So is not agreeing on facts/truth The Great Filter?

For those who aren't familiar with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter

> The Great Filter, in the context of the Fermi paradox, is whatever prevents "dead matter" from giving rise, in time, to "expanding lasting life". The concept originates in Robin Hanson's argument that the failure to find any extraterrestrial civilizations in the observable universe implies the possibility something is wrong with one or more of the arguments from various scientific disciplines that the appearance of advanced intelligent life is probable; this observation is conceptualized in terms of a "Great Filter" which acts to reduce the great number of sites where intelligent life might arise to the tiny number of intelligent species with advanced civilizations actually observed (currently just one: human). This probability threshold, which could lie behind us (in our past) or in front of us (in our future), might work as a barrier to the evolution of intelligent life, or as a high probability of self-destruction. The main counter-intuitive conclusion of this observation is that the easier it was for life to evolve to our stage, the bleaker our future chances probably are.

So ZeroBugBounce is wondering if "not agreeing on facts/truth" is the thing (or one of the things) that technologically advanced civilizations experience that filters them out of the running for expanding out into space. E.g. people can't agree on facts, which causes unrest, riots, etc; civilization eventually collapses from it all, and people never make it into space.

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is not agreeing on facts/truth The Great Filter?

It seems to me it's the mere fact that humanity's rise was borne on the back of its ruthless drive and selfish greed, and the same things that made us the best hunters also influence society in myriad ways. In my eyes, greed, hierarchy, and limited compassion / an inability to share are the filter, and all society's diseases are the symptoms.

I'm really disappointed when I hear this kind of thing. It's a sentiment that so many people believe, and want to believe, and choose to believe even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

It's almost like a pernicious, psychological cancer, except it can also spread virulently to other susceptible hosts.

Humanity's rise is due to lots of factors, especially the countless individuals who have worked to improve the health, well-being, safety, and wealth of the people around them. Greed is but one aspect of humanity, and unbounded greed destroys societies.

Yeah, there are problems in 2018, but to sit here today, in the relative comfort of modern society, and say "we only have all this because we're terrible animals" is hugely disrespectful to the work of a lot of people.

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#35
post #22

FWIW, all audio/video communication technologies have been some what comically overestimated in their abilities. Two examples: - Henry Ford, believing that since “sight” was the universal language, movies (along with airplanes) would unite all people and places - Many people who believed television was so captivating when it first started to be introduced in the late 20s and early 30s, that it would replace nearly al…

I'm sorry, but your example falls a little flat when you look at how Fox News became the lynchpin of the shit-show the US is sinking in to right now. People adapted to it, sure- but that's the problem.

If a single TV station had the power you describe you would think they might be a little more successful at using it by now. Not saying they have no effect, but if the station never existed I don't think our history would be drastically different.

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#36
It wasn't long ago that we didn't even have video, before that we didn't even have pictures. You had the option of believing or rejecting one or more accounts. You also had the option of suspending your belief/disbelief until you felt like corroborating evidence swayed you one direction or the other. Personally speaking, I'm often surprised at how certain people are about the information they ingest.

It reminds me of Daniel Kahneman's book "Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow" where points out that people more likely to read a paper critically if it uses a bad fonts, poor layout and some typos. It's not a ground-breaking conclusion, but the studies also implied that people tended to read papers less critically when they looked good. The idea is the mind has the tendency to substitute out critical thinking with heuristic thinking whenever it can. If a paper superficially resembles serious paper from a well-respected journal, there's a real temptation to ease up on the scrutiny because many other signals are suggesting your enhanced scrutiny is a waste of time and energy.

I can't say for sure if our reliance on video and photographs over the last 100 years or so had helped or hurt our critical thinking. It's very easy to argue the hard work of photographers have been critical to bringing important issues and events to our attention. On the other hand, you can argue an over-reliance on images have stripped us from engaging our imagination.

I know in a world of fake news, it would seem like the last thing we need is to engage people's imagination. When we hear the word imagination, most of us think about the skill the lets one fabricate novel stories or alternate realities. We don't think about imagination as a tool that people use to try to figure out our reality. A vivid imagination not only knows how to fabricate alternate realities, but it also knows how to incorporate information from the senses, books, articles and information to test and consider different world views. We need people who can absorb information about how the world works, and can project possible realities as well as many possible futures.

I know I'm going long on this comment, and I don't want to come off as an optimist, but maybe we can use the advent of fake video to cultivate a culture that stops trusting passive sources of information (video) and begins to engage healthy critical thinking instead.

I could be way off the mark and would love to hear someone tell me what I'm missing.

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#37
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is not agreeing on facts/truth The Great Filter?

It seems to me it's the mere fact that humanity's rise was borne on the back of its ruthless drive and selfish greed, and the same things that made us the best hunters also influence society in myriad ways. In my eyes, greed, hierarchy, and limited compassion / an inability to share are the filter, and all society's diseases are the symptoms.

If you don't take into account cooperation, complex communication, and the ability to abstract (e.g. a rock isn't just something to step over, it's also a potential weapon and when many are combined a dwelling, bridge, etc.), then your observation has merit.

We're a relatively weak, slow animal. We don't see well at night. Our teeth and nails are fairly useless from a hunting or even defensive perspective. We don't procreate quickly and our young mature slowly. Our survival advantage is working in coordinated teams and having flexible minds with respect to the world around us. Cats are closer to what you described.

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#38
post #22

FWIW, all audio/video communication technologies have been some what comically overestimated in their abilities. Two examples: - Henry Ford, believing that since “sight” was the universal language, movies (along with airplanes) would unite all people and places - Many people who believed television was so captivating when it first started to be introduced in the late 20s and early 30s, that it would replace nearly al…

I'm sorry, but your example falls a little flat when you look at how Fox News became the lynchpin of the shit-show the US is sinking in to right now. People adapted to it, sure- but that's the problem.

Do we have evidence that Fox News on the television is significantly more disruptive than, say, radio programs[0] were before it?

0: https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/86-man-of-the-people

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#39
post #25
post #17

I find it amusing that we're worried about the potential of fake video/audio. Like everything would be just be fine if it weren't for that possibility. Deep fakes haven't really shown up in the wild as a significant threat and we already have large swaths of society that can't agree on the truth. Certainly fake media isn't going to help any, but folks, we're ALREADY fucked.

The Vox article is also making a nuanced point -- that memory is constructed subconsciously. So the insidious thing? Creating 100 videos with only slight political position adjustments, and thereby (even if the videos are later revealed as fakes!) shifting a voter's "gut" impression of a candidate. I'd be amazed if we don't start seeing audio & video cryptographic authentication in the next 10 years. The subject of a…

This is probably already happening with good old fashioned Photoshop (or not even that sometimes). For instance, when a Telegraph journalist mistook a photoshopped photo of Trump with a white supremacist for the real deal and tweeted it with the comment that "this isn't complicated"[1], I doubt many people who saw the original tweet even saw the correction[2]. Over 28,000 retweets for the original claim, under a thousand for the correction. This is about typical.

[1] http://archive.is/paG5C [2] https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/896654656348323841

Re: We’re underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#40
Who will the public believe if it is a high profile video? This might just end in court...

This will induce peaks of paranoia into the minds of conspiratorial people.

The bad side effect is that now, you can call any video a deep fake, and attack the authenticity of any video used against you.

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