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How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

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Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#31

Post by tptacek »

TylerE wrote: post #28
tptacek wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Than Mac 12! Yeah, sorry: Mac 12 is probably a good value. The comparison I’m always seeing made is to Mac 18. (Actually, Binny’s current Mac 12 price in Chicago appears to be higher than Abunadh or Dronach 12 [which is fantastic]).

I wouldn't really call anything Macallan good value. For a basic sherried whiskey Aberlour 12 is just about as good, for substantially less, and for what Macallan 12 goes for these days you have tons of (imo) more interesting/better options. I will say I had a dram of the 18 in a bar once, and it was indeed very very good, but I can't really justify spending ~$250 bottle for it.

$250 for a bottle of Macallan is insane. It's not worth it. You're paying for the name.

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#32

Post by wheels »

vowelless wrote: post #9
tptacek wrote: post #6

Sherry is the reason people like Macallan, but: * lots of Scotch has no sherry, and, particularly, the smokey peaty Islays tend not to be sherried at all. Sherried Scotch is a distinctive style, mostly centered in Speyside. * There are better, cheaper sherry bomb whiskies than Macallan; try Aberlour A’bunadh (cheap, excellent) and Glendronach (still substantially cheaper than Macallan, and I think much better). The b…

> Aberlour A’bunadh Where are you getting cheap Aberlour A'bunadh?? It's my favorite scotch but I cannot find it for less than 2 to 3 times the price of Macallan 12. Also, Glenmorangie is a delicious sherry scotch. Tastes a lot like Macallan and usually cheaper. > The big trend in Scotch is towards “no age statement” (NAS) bottlings, because Scotland is not keeping up with resurgent global demand. NAS bottles are you…

Glenmorangie isn't sherried unless you get the "La Santa" version, which I don't think is as good as the original, and then it's only finished for two years in sherry casks after the usual maturation in bourbon casks.

Aberlour A'bunadh is great, as noted, as is Glendrodach, but they've run out of 15 year old casks, and the 18 isn't enough better to justify the price hike.

Another favorite is the Bunnahabhain 18, a non-peaty, sherried Islay whisky.

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#33

Post by tptacek »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #25
tptacek wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt there would be much difference between ex-rye and ex-bourbon. The first fill of American spirit strips most of the flavor out of the barrel and doesn’t leave really anything behind. (There’s a cool Woodford Reserve demo bottling you can get that demonstrates this).

In Scotland, ex bourbon barrels go through a process of "rejuvenation" to expose flavor bearing compounds still found deeper in the wood: "... why not scrape out the inside of the cask and toast it again? After toasting the cask is charred anew, and voilà: You have a new, activated cask. ... A bourbon cask, used for 2 to 4 years in the USA, can be used for another 30 years in Scotland." https://www.whisky.com/informa…

Right, the casks still work, but it's not like aging scotch in William Larue Weller casks works any better than Jim Beam casks. It's just a source of oak.

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#34

Post by wavedynamics »

tptacek wrote: post #24
taurath wrote: post #23

Some of the most lovely bourbons I’ve had recently are port barrel aged, so this isn’t a surprise!

Which one? The only wine barrel bourbon I've had is High West's Midwinter. I'd be interested in other ones. Kilchoman's port cask Scotch is really amazing.

Angels Envy - port barrel finished - is one of my favorites.

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#35

Post by wheels »

tptacek wrote: post #17
flyinghamster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where are you getting cheap Aberlour A'bunadh?? It's my favorite scotch but I cannot find it for less than 2 to 3 times the price of Macallan 12. I was going to ask that, as well. :-) In Chicagoland at least, there isn't a huge price difference, though ($67 for Macallan 12, $90 for A'bunadh). On the other hand, last time I had a bottle of A'bunadh, it was in the $60-$65 range. Fortunately, being cask strength, the…

Weird. I just paid mid-60s for a bottle, from Binnys, off Instacart no less, but yeah the price right now is just shy of $90. It’s not worth $90. You can get a Dronach for that much. A good relatively inexpensive sherry Speyside is Dailuane (in my experience only the cheap Dailuanes are good).

Whisky became hip in the last 5-ish years and all of the stuff I used to recommend to people has gotten too expensive. I've expanded significantly towards other matured spirits where the prices haven't gotten as redonkulous yet: rum, brandy, and even some good tequila.

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#36

Post by stock_toaster »

tptacek wrote: post #6

Sherry is the reason people like Macallan, but: * lots of Scotch has no sherry, and, particularly, the smokey peaty Islays tend not to be sherried at all. Sherried Scotch is a distinctive style, mostly centered in Speyside. * There are better, cheaper sherry bomb whiskies than Macallan; try Aberlour A’bunadh (cheap, excellent) and Glendronach (still substantially cheaper than Macallan, and I think much better). The b…

> my mental model is that ex-bourbon casks add basically no flavors other than the wood; I think of them as “neutrally casked“

Typically vanillas, nuts, toffees, woods, caramels, and some cereal notes (other cereal notes from the barley of course, which oak may not drown out as much as the fruitier sherries).

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#37

Post by toomanybeersies »

jackhack wrote: post #20
peterwwillis wrote: post #8

Sherry is definitely underappreciated in the US. One of my favorite aspects of it is how it is poured in Spain. A Venenciador uses a long rod with a thin cup to dip into a cask and pour the sherry into a small glass from high up in the air. This is a regular part of the sampling process in bodegas, but it is also performed at parties, weddings and fancy restaurants. It takes a lot of practice to get good at it, so go…

Interesting it's so firmly a part of the ritual of serving sherry. But then aeration is known to improve the flavours of many types of spirits and even electronic wine bottle toppers are available to spin the air.

A classic trick in restaurants for serving older red wines that need to breath a bit is to just pour it through a sieve when pouring it into the decanter (it should be poured into a decanter to pour it off the sediment in the bottle) to aerate the wine.

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#38

Post by stock_toaster »

tptacek wrote: post #24
taurath wrote: post #23

Some of the most lovely bourbons I’ve had recently are port barrel aged, so this isn’t a surprise!

Which one? The only wine barrel bourbon I've had is High West's Midwinter. I'd be interested in other ones. Kilchoman's port cask Scotch is really amazing.

Balvenie also has a 21yo portwood.

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#39

Post by secabeen »

tptacek wrote: post #31
TylerE wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't really call anything Macallan good value. For a basic sherried whiskey Aberlour 12 is just about as good, for substantially less, and for what Macallan 12 goes for these days you have tons of (imo) more interesting/better options. I will say I had a dram of the 18 in a bar once, and it was indeed very very good, but I can't really justify spending ~$250 bottle for it.

$250 for a bottle of Macallan is insane. It's not worth it. You're paying for the name.

Yeah, in the early 2000s, there were bottles of Macallan 18 for $75 or so at Costco. It was a wonderful time.

Re: How Sherry Became the Secret to Great Scotch

#40

Post by tptacek »

stock_toaster wrote: post #36
tptacek wrote: post #6

Sherry is the reason people like Macallan, but: * lots of Scotch has no sherry, and, particularly, the smokey peaty Islays tend not to be sherried at all. Sherried Scotch is a distinctive style, mostly centered in Speyside. * There are better, cheaper sherry bomb whiskies than Macallan; try Aberlour A’bunadh (cheap, excellent) and Glendronach (still substantially cheaper than Macallan, and I think much better). The b…

> my mental model is that ex-bourbon casks add basically no flavors other than the wood; I think of them as “neutrally casked“ Typically vanillas, nuts, toffees, woods, caramels, and some cereal notes (other cereal notes from the barley of course, which oak may not drown out as much as the fruitier sherries).

Those are all flavors you get when alcohol interacts with charred wood. They're not coming from the bourbon that originally filled the cask, unlike what happens with sherry.
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