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How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

bloomberg.com

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Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#31

Post by bluGill »

Tepix wrote: post #22

From TFA: > The cost of cars accounts for as much as 85 percent of personal transportation spending, according to Hietanen, even though the average car is used only 4 percent of the time. Sounds like a great opportunity indeed. Former car owners save money and the car rental companies can still make a profit. Everyone (including the environment) wins.

That is an invalid comparison. All we know is that the 4% of time those people spend in their car is to them worth a lot of money to them.

The costs of a car need to be paid. Rental cars need to pay the same costs. (probably more because rental cars tend to be newer cars, and also because people tend to abuse rental cars knowing that the cost will not be theirs.

Yes, if you rarely drive renting a car becomes cost effective. However we already have car rental companies and car sharing companies. The economics of them are something you can research if you are interested. It might or might not pay off in any given situation.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#32

Post by sandworm101 »

A great system for the young and able-bodied, those with no literal or metaphorical baggage. But try getting on the bus with a disabled child in a large wheelchair. Or try taking your bleeding dog to the vet in a cab. Or board a bus carrying a windsurfer. I want to go rock climbing this weekend. No bus or taxi will take me up a logging road. Must i walk from the nearest town? Because then i'll have to take time off work. There will always be a place for personal vehicles.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#33

Post by Sharlin »

yurishimo wrote: post #28

The 499 euro price tag for the "all access" seems quite expensive from an American point of view. I can get a decent car with good gas mileage for about half that and outright buying a used car will save me a lot more in less than a year. Most people who would be tempted to go without owning a car in the US don't do much driving anyway, so they don't spend a lot on gas as is. While I think this could work in NYC, Sea…

Trust me, 499e per month is really steep from Finnish perspective too. Not really sure what's the target customer demographic here. Maybe companies, as an alternative to leasing a car.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#34

Post by m_mueller »

sandworm101 wrote: post #32

A great system for the young and able-bodied, those with no literal or metaphorical baggage. But try getting on the bus with a disabled child in a large wheelchair. Or try taking your bleeding dog to the vet in a cab. Or board a bus carrying a windsurfer. I want to go rock climbing this weekend. No bus or taxi will take me up a logging road. Must i walk from the nearest town? Because then i'll have to take time off w…

Wheelchair: Vote for better politicians who invest in accessible public transportation. E.g. in Switzerland and I suspect most of Skandinavia this is not a big deal.

Rock climbing: That's when you rent a car [1]. Although again, Switzerland's trains, post buses and cablecars bring you there without any big issue, so if there's the political will there's also a way, as long as you don't want to go to a place that's too remote from densely populated areas.

Bleeding dog: Again, rent a car [1].

Windsurfer: You got me there, if you have that hobby you probably best have your own car.

[1] we have a car sharing service here that is ubiquitous and costs you around 40-50 bucks for half a day and 40km or so. Doesn't sound that cheap, but a car costs you at least 400 a month here (cost of ownership). Renting cars once a weekend plus public transport subscription (70-250 dollars depending on your needs) means you never have to care about parking spaces, you can comfortably work on your way to work and you have a car when it's really the most useful method.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#35

Post by bogomipz »

outime wrote: post #2

As a Helsinki resident (and Whim user) it’s important to point out that while the user base of Whim has grown quite a bit, it’s most likely due to the introductory price that won’t last forever. For 49 € you get public transport, public bike (first half an hour free), cheap taxi rides and perhaps slightly cheaper car renting, whereas to get public transport alone without this app is around 55 €. So I wouldn’t call it…

Can you elaborate on what constitutes a "cheap taxi ride"? Is this a flat percentage discount off the regular fare? Something else?

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#36

Post by dharma1 »

jpatokal wrote: post #24

As a former Helsinkian, I'm rather surprised to see the label "future of urban travel" applied to a city that has banned all forms of Uber-style ride-sharing due to pressure from the taxi lobby.

The ban was lifted early this month - Uber and many other ride sharing/taxi companies are now legal

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#38

Post by outime »

bogomipz wrote: post #35
outime wrote: post #2

As a Helsinki resident (and Whim user) it’s important to point out that while the user base of Whim has grown quite a bit, it’s most likely due to the introductory price that won’t last forever. For 49 € you get public transport, public bike (first half an hour free), cheap taxi rides and perhaps slightly cheaper car renting, whereas to get public transport alone without this app is around 55 €. So I wouldn’t call it…

Can you elaborate on what constitutes a "cheap taxi ride"? Is this a flat percentage discount off the regular fare? Something else?

“Cheap” by finnish standards - means you pay a maximum of 10 € for a 5 km radius trip.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#39

Post by alistairSH »

mattlondon wrote: post #17

Its the availability that is the killer for these sorts of services, as one of the people interviewed in the article says. I don't see how these services can compare with a private car without totally saturating the neighborhood with lots of idle vehicles sitting around to cover the spikes in demand without suffering infuriating unavailability when you need to get somewhere. Its already annoying seeing all the dock-l…

I don't see how these services can compare with a private car without totally saturating the neighborhood with lots of idle vehicles sitting around

Are there not giant parking lots and over-capacity street parking in your city? I live in the US suburbs, own a car, and it sits idle the vast majority of the time. Individual car ownership literally leads to the problem you claim MaaS creates.

Re: How Helsinki Arrived at the Future of Urban Travel First

#40

Post by alistairSH »

yurishimo wrote: post #28

The 499 euro price tag for the "all access" seems quite expensive from an American point of view. I can get a decent car with good gas mileage for about half that and outright buying a used car will save me a lot more in less than a year. Most people who would be tempted to go without owning a car in the US don't do much driving anyway, so they don't spend a lot on gas as is. While I think this could work in NYC, Sea…

That's about $580 US. The average monthly payment on a NEW car in the US is around $500 [0][1]. Add in parking (even "free" parking isn't), depreciation, gasoline, insurance, and registration fees and that's pretty darn close to $580.

From my perspective, living the DC suburbs, I would love to have an all-access app for multi-mode transport. I own two cars (one for me, one for wife). I walk to work, so my car only gets driven on the weekends, and only if my wife and I are doing different things. It's a VERY expensive way to maintain my weekend "freedom". Lyft/Uber would fill much of the gap, except I frequently go camping 2-4 hours away. If Lyft had a "long term borrow" plan, I could get rid of my $400/month car payment and all associated costs.

[0]https://www.thebalance.com/average-monthly-car-payment-41376... [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2016/06...

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