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The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

gizmodo.com

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Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#31

Post by petee »

petee wrote: post #16
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

x2. This seems like a case where there probably exists better options but the cost and friction of switching is too high. As long as the money's still coming there's no reason to look for alternatives though, especially when looking for alternatives would involve doing battle with a union over the jobs the alternatives would eliminate. Does SF really have that many more overhead power lines than other cities to warra…

All you're describing sounds way more expensive than a couple carpenters...simply being able to fix a ladder than toss it is a huge saving Its the little details: -- For example, a 3" Fiberglass Ibeam 10 feet long is ~$200, and only rated to 140 degrees. I can't readily find a more comparable product. -- your aluminum ladder with high temp rubber, also needs to be electrically insulated; so now you have to toss the w…

You should also Google Image search, "San Francisco power lines" -- yes, they have a ton of overhead lines

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#32

Post by pastor_elm »

chrisseaton wrote: post #11

Americans seem to take a lot of pride in their fire brigades - their fire engines are still shiny and polished with more traditional signage and the fire fighters still wear helmets with their traditional shape. In the United Kingdom they wear more simple uniforms and the engines are just a box shape with no bells any more - seems a shame. Usually it's UK the has more ceremony in these kind of things.

Not really. Most firefighters in the US are volunteer, so not enough pride to pay people to do it.

In big cities, it's more of an internal camaraderie thing. They live together, cook together, shop together, etc. A lot prefer being at the station with their 'brothers' to being at home.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#34

Post by chrisseaton »

davio wrote: post #25
chrisseaton wrote: post #11

Americans seem to take a lot of pride in their fire brigades - their fire engines are still shiny and polished with more traditional signage and the fire fighters still wear helmets with their traditional shape. In the United Kingdom they wear more simple uniforms and the engines are just a box shape with no bells any more - seems a shame. Usually it's UK the has more ceremony in these kind of things.

You should see the fire engines in mountain towns. They look like monster trucks.

Does each town fund and buy their own? Maybe that leads to more pride and respect for the equipment.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#35

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Retric wrote: post #12
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

x2. This seems like a case where there probably exists better options but the cost and friction of switching is too high. As long as the money's still coming there's no reason to look for alternatives though, especially when looking for alternatives would involve doing battle with a union over the jobs the alternatives would eliminate. Does SF really have that many more overhead power lines than other cities to warra…

Fiberglass is a terrible choice for these ladders. Most places use Aluminum or steel but that has conductivity issues with the amount of overhead powerlines in SF. They can be coated to reduce conductivity but that has other issues. http://lacountyfirefighters.org/items/Ground_Ladders_by_John... 3. May chip and crack with impact forces. 4. May suddenly crack and fail when overloaded. 5. Can burn when exposed to flame…

All those downsides apply to wood and aluminum to varying extents. It's a typical case of engineering trade-offs.

Wood chips and cracks (well, splits but it's basically the same thing) dents in any metal structure cause stress rises that do basically the same thing for strength as chips and cracks in fiberglass.

Wood and metal assemblies will all "fail suddenly" when overloaded because a huge part of their strength comes from their shape, they deform from overloading and that reduces strength (positive feedback loop).

Regarding heat, a quick google search turned up [1] which is good to just shy of 400f, about same temp at which the strength of 6061 falls off a cliff. I also found this[2] which to me indicates that the underlying chemical science is at a point where a fiberglass should be able to replicate the heat resistance of aluminum.

https://www.fibreglast.com/product/high-temp-epoxy-resin-300...

https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/22198/are-ther...

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#36

Post by xienze »

cesarb wrote: post #19

> There's a city-specific reason why San Francisco has stuck with wood rather than swap over to metals, and the answer lies in looking up. The high-voltage cables and wires that guide the city's (oft-maligned) public transport system Muni, and trolley cars crisscross above nearly every street, mean that ladders made of conductive elements are generally just too dangerous to use. I wonder how it's done in European cit…

Fiberglass, probably. Which is what SF should be doing.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#37

Post by qop »

craftyguy wrote: post #29
enriquto wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a job where 95% of the time is spent waiting for an emergency to react to. this describes quite accurately the work of many people maintaining computer systems

I must be maintaining the wrong systems, because over here 95% of the time is reacting to emergencies (some technical, but most fabricated by management)

First thing that came to my mind too!

I've had two "Please call me, it's broke" calls just this morning!

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#38

Post by sparrish »

petee wrote: post #7

Great read, but loved the end - ""Pete has collected all these different donuts over the years. They're all real, and covered with lacquer so they won't go bad. Some of these are ten years old.""

Impressive collection but I only see a waste of a good donut!

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#39

Post by mc32 »

pastor_elm wrote: post #32
chrisseaton wrote: post #11

Americans seem to take a lot of pride in their fire brigades - their fire engines are still shiny and polished with more traditional signage and the fire fighters still wear helmets with their traditional shape. In the United Kingdom they wear more simple uniforms and the engines are just a box shape with no bells any more - seems a shame. Usually it's UK the has more ceremony in these kind of things.

Not really. Most firefighters in the US are volunteer, so not enough pride to pay people to do it. In big cities, it's more of an internal camaraderie thing. They live together, cook together, shop together, etc. A lot prefer being at the station with their 'brothers' to being at home.

Many volunteer firefighters are just as well provisioned and with as many amenities as fully paid ones, at least in many suburbs.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#40

Post by icegreentea2 »

heartbreak wrote: post #26
Retric wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The San Franciso Fire Department is using wooden ladders due to an abundance of overhead power lines. Which I think is the core issue, use other peoples tools unless you have some critical and unique requirement.

They could buy wooden ladders, so I don't think that paints the whole picture.

Article says they are one of two wooden manufacturers in California.
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