Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised • Hacker News Board

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#31

Post by onli » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

1337biz wrote: post #28

xashor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mixed it up, the bavarian police isn't fighting off/investigating AfD. Zwiebelfreunde (Friends of Onion) forwarded donations (!) from Germany into the US based RiseUp. Latter hosts a website calling for protests against the far right AfD.

So they were most likely funneling money through international channels to support ANTIFA activists? If they were doing the same for the other side - i.e. funneling right wing money to support NAZI activist it would be the same kind of stupid. If you don't want to get your servers to be raided just don't side-hustle as an extremist shaddow financier.

No. That's not even the claim by the prosecution.

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#32

Post by paws » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

xashor wrote: post #20

Consider donating. Zwiebelfreunde needs to pay their lawyers. Note that if you donate via IBAN, your account data will likely be in the hands of the police. At least when the next raid happens. Zwiebelfreunde: https://www.torservers.net/donate.html

Could you help me understand why it's a problem that your account data would be in the hands of the police?

I would have thought the reason for the raid was to collect physical evidence and that whatever the German equivalent to FinCEN[1] is could just pull anyone's financial records up anytime.

Is it simply fear of being targeted? It's not a crime to donate is it?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Crimes_Enforcement_N...

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#33

Post by dannyw » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 2:25 PM UTC

xashor wrote: post #20

Consider donating. Zwiebelfreunde needs to pay their lawyers. Note that if you donate via IBAN, your account data will likely be in the hands of the police. At least when the next raid happens. Zwiebelfreunde: https://www.torservers.net/donate.html

This is actually a genuine use case for cryptocurrency.

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#34

Post by gmueckl » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 2:30 PM UTC

onli wrote: post #16

xashor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mixed it up, the bavarian police isn't fighting off/investigating AfD. Zwiebelfreunde (Friends of Onion) forwarded donations (!) from Germany into the US based RiseUp. Latter hosts a website calling for protests against the far right AfD.

Right. If anything, bavaria is illegally overreaching here in an effort to protect the AfD. Given the political development of the governing party of bavaria (the CSU developed into a right wing party and is fighting for destabilizing the moderate government) this police action is probably a political friendship offering between the two.

The stance of the CSU has always been to be the right most party in Bavaria. The AfD is their enemy for fishing votes at the right end if the spectrum that the CSU regards as their own. Why do you think we had the crisis in the federal government on behalf of CSU politicians pushing a dangerously right wing agenda?

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#35

Post by ben0x539 » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

rasengan wrote: post #30

rasengan wrote: post #25

Why is this post sinking? Is someone at HN trying to censor this too like the Tesla stuff? It has more upvotes in less time than any other post on the front page. The top post has 35 upvotes in 2 hours. This post is falling off the front page with 81 upvotes in less than an hour. This is completely sketch.

Addition: why would a truthful fact be downvoted?

Consider that there's a near-limitless amount of truthful facts that can be posted in any given comment thread. You need more criteria than just accuracy to consider whether any given post should be given prominent placement among other comments. I empathize with your frustration but I believe a convincing argument against downvotes needs to engage along more dimensions than this particular one.

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#36

Post by DanBC » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

rasengan wrote: post #30

rasengan wrote: post #25

Why is this post sinking? Is someone at HN trying to censor this too like the Tesla stuff? It has more upvotes in less time than any other post on the front page. The top post has 35 upvotes in 2 hours. This post is falling off the front page with 81 upvotes in less than an hour. This is completely sketch.

Addition: why would a truthful fact be downvoted?

You've added opinion to the fact - "is someone at HN" etc.

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#37

Post by deltateam » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

Payments with Monero use would have solved and prevented the donor data from being leaked.

I'm still a little distressed at how few web-anything providers accept Monero.

Privacy focused email services and cloud service providers should be using it

but what we really have is protonmail only accepting credit cards and nobody seems to see the irony in that.

occassionally in the past I have found email and cloud service providers accepting Bitcoin, and I shapeshifted Monero over TOR to pay for the invoice. Nobody knows who I am and they received the bitcoin they were looking for.

But that was YEARS ago, 2015? 2016? Seems the possibilities have gotten worse for now

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#38

Post by JumpCrisscross » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 3:06 PM UTC

paws wrote: post #32

xashor wrote: post #20

Consider donating. Zwiebelfreunde needs to pay their lawyers. Note that if you donate via IBAN, your account data will likely be in the hands of the police. At least when the next raid happens. Zwiebelfreunde: https://www.torservers.net/donate.html

Could you help me understand why it's a problem that your account data would be in the hands of the police? I would have thought the reason for the raid was to collect physical evidence and that whatever the German equivalent to FinCEN[1] is could just pull anyone's financial records up anytime. Is it simply fear of being targeted? It's not a crime to donate is it? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Crimes_E…

> Could you help me understand why it's a problem that your account data would be in the hands of the police?

I would be pretty pissed off if the NYPD compiled a database of my political donations without probable cause.

> whatever the German equivalent to FinCEN

FinCEN doesn’t have a comprehensive database of transactions. Banks, collectively, do. But for smaller non-suspicious transactions, FinCEN must reach out to banks to collect the data. Requesting political donations for lots of individuals without a warrant would be odd.

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#39

Post by gant » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

Chickenosaurus wrote: post #6

I hope the judge who approved these actions or the people who carried them out without approval will face appropriate consequences. Treating witnesses in such a manner is reprehensible and abusive.

laughing intensifies

I tried that when I got raided and had all my stuff taken. The only thing that happened was the officer that suggested the warrant as his first measure got barred from promotions for a year, maybe, they weren't so clear about specifics.

Re: Police raid at Zwiebelfreunde: Donor data compromised

#40

Post by xashor » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

paws wrote: post #32

xashor wrote: post #20

Consider donating. Zwiebelfreunde needs to pay their lawyers. Note that if you donate via IBAN, your account data will likely be in the hands of the police. At least when the next raid happens. Zwiebelfreunde: https://www.torservers.net/donate.html

Could you help me understand why it's a problem that your account data would be in the hands of the police? I would have thought the reason for the raid was to collect physical evidence and that whatever the German equivalent to FinCEN[1] is could just pull anyone's financial records up anytime. Is it simply fear of being targeted? It's not a crime to donate is it? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Crimes_E…

>whatever the German equivalent to FinCEN[1] is could just pull anyone's financial records up anytime.

In Germany it is not so easy. Even though the requirement for the state to get info about somebody's bank account is lowered, they still need some justification.

>I would have thought the reason for the raid was to collect physical evidence

For that reason alone the police wouldn't have to seize this 3d printed model of a nuclear bomb. Police stated, that „they might be planning a bomb attack“. This raid was also a display of power, to intimidate.

>why it's a problem that your account data would be in the hands of the police?

All people who donated are now on a list in some police department, maybe called „Connected to left extremism“. As donating is not a crime (both Zwiebelfreunde and RiseUp are registered organizations in their countries), this will not lead to prosecution alone.

But just because it wasn't illegal does not mean the police won't investigate if they feel like it.

And whenever they want to target you (even if the reason is unrelated), they can look up their lists and tell the judge: „Well, person X donated to this suspicous looking site, makes him suspicious, right?“ This might play a role in court or for new justifications (f.e. the police wants to raid your home, too).

[0] https://www.thueringen24.de/img/incoming/crop214771927/17338...