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WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

xda-developers.com

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Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#31

Post by andrewaylett »

Next up: suing Google because "Wear OS" and Android Auto also uses these APIs to allow responses from the watch/car?

The whole _point_ of implementing these APIs is to allow the user to reply using a different app; replies direct from the notification on the device itself are a hook to encourage developers who don't care about the rich integrations to allow that functionality anyway.

And that's one of the things I really like about Android: "platform" apps like WearOS don't use private APIs, they use public APIs so other developers can build on platform features. I have seven apps installed that ask for notification access, five I've granted.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#32

Post by mtgx »

devit wrote: post #21

The real problem here is that after this stunt I'd like to completely stop using Whatsapp and switch to something else instead, but I can't because other people use Whatsapp and communicating with other people is essential to me. The problem is there no laws to stop whoever becomes the lucky recipient of such a network effect from doing whatever they want. Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider networ…

Anti-trust laws need to stop obviously dominant players from buying up competitors.

Facebook should have never been allowed to buy WhatsApp and Instagram - especially Instagram. It would've been so much better if Instagram got to be the main independent competitor (or even purchased by another company) to Facebook, than Facebook owning it.

Facebook will keep making tens of billions of dollars in the coming years, even if it's engagement drops - but Instagram may keep growing. So does that mean Facebook will be able to purchase future competitors to Instagram, too?

Screw that. It shouldn't be allowed. In fact, I think we need a law that says automatic anti-trust protection is activated on any company purchases over say $500 million.

Google should have never been allowed to purchase Admob, either. They almost rejected the deal at the time, but still ended-up letting it through. And of course all of these telecom mergers shouldn't be allowed either.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#33

Post by qeternity »

iMerNibor wrote: post #27
qeternity wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider network effect platforms like social network as monopolies on ways of interacting with their users, and restrict them from several behaviors like this one. This is not a monopoly, and monopolies themselves are not illegal. You mention antitrust laws but I am not sure what anticompetitive behavior is taking place here? The C&D itself is quite laughable, but spea…

> superiority of the product It's not though. Once you become big and have reached critical mass you can pull off quite a lot of mediocre/bad stuff. Fact is the majority of people simply do not care as long as the product still works (they might not even be aware there's bad stuff going on behind the scenes) - too much effort to find a suitable alternative, convince everyone else to go to the same platform and so on

How do you think it got big in the first place? "Too much effort to find an alternative" is just a synonym for "superior".

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#34

Post by oliwarner »

devit wrote: post #21

The real problem here is that after this stunt I'd like to completely stop using Whatsapp and switch to something else instead, but I can't because other people use Whatsapp and communicating with other people is essential to me. The problem is there no laws to stop whoever becomes the lucky recipient of such a network effect from doing whatever they want. Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider networ…

Saying ~"We need more laws!" isn't enough. What do you specifically want here?

We could demand that all network protocols are fair game for reverse-engineering to enable interoperability. Or mandate public specs and save everybody a bit of effort.

But if it's my app —not the protocol or the service itself— that's generating revenue to pay for the whole thing (eg adverts), why is it fair to let people and other providers usurp that? What if I rely on a specific client setup for security (eg anti-cheat in multiplayer games)?

I do very much see your point about social colonies forming and creating their own localised monopolies, but I just cannot see a clean way to fix it. Do you?

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#35

Post by bodas »

thecatspaw wrote: post #10
guessmyname wrote: post #3

> Can’t Talk‘s premise is simple. All it does is automatically reply to people when you aren’t around, making use of the quick reply (RemoteInput) API native to Android. […] It’s a paid application if you want to support more than SMS and calls, such as WhatsApp, Slack, and a lot more. > DirectChat is another useful application. It works just like Facebook Messenger’s chat bubbles but it supports a lot of different a…

You are right, they dont interact with whatsapp directly, but indirectly through a android API. The android API cannot be covered by the whatsapp terms (which the developers never agreed to according to the title)

I don't believe that. They never installed Whatsapp? The intersection of people who build chat accessory apps and people who have never installed Whatsapp is surely empty.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#36

Post by cornholio »

ashraymalhotra wrote: post #6
pmontra wrote: post #5

> This letter is not a complete list of all of WhatsApp's rights you might have violated. Fortunately they added this statement because (IANAL) I believe those developers didn't perform any of the activities listed in the bullet points of the letter. However all of third party WhatsApp automation is a gray area. Everybody knows that WhatsApp doesn't welcome it (I really don't know why) and they have the money to liti…

> I wouldn't be surprised if the plan is to move all WhatsApp users to Messenger. People use WhatsApp over messenger primarily because how "light" the app feels. It feels exactly like SMS for free, which was always the appeal of the app. Given the trend to make a Lite version of every Android app, Facebook should be prioritising WhatsApp, not planning to migrate it to Messenger. PS - Has a mass migration of community…

The convergence of the Messenger and Whatsapp communities is all but imminent despite strong internal resistance from the Whatsapp team.

You don't need to migrate anything on the short run. The Whatsapp classic experience will probably remain the same for those who prefer the lite messenger, with the added feature of linking a Facebook account and talking to those people too. The heavy and encouraged experience will be Messenger, that already scours the phone book of those dumb enough to use it, and is perfectly positioned to talk to Whatsapp clients.

The massive network effect this move will unlock cannot be ignored by Facebook. I'm sure Whatsapp's privacy features will suffer, but users don't value them.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#37

Post by yorwba »

qeternity wrote: post #33
iMerNibor wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> superiority of the product It's not though. Once you become big and have reached critical mass you can pull off quite a lot of mediocre/bad stuff. Fact is the majority of people simply do not care as long as the product still works (they might not even be aware there's bad stuff going on behind the scenes) - too much effort to find a suitable alternative, convince everyone else to go to the same platform and so on

How do you think it got big in the first place? "Too much effort to find an alternative" is just a synonym for "superior".

They start out by building a superior product; then that product gets big; then they realize they need to monetize; then the product stops being superior, but it still has everyone's contacts, so most users stay; then the product keeps getting worse until it's unbearable and everyone switches to the most popular superior alternative...

WhatsApp is currently in the "no longer superior" phase.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#38

Post by qeternity »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #30
qeternity wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider network effect platforms like social network as monopolies on ways of interacting with their users, and restrict them from several behaviors like this one. This is not a monopoly, and monopolies themselves are not illegal. You mention antitrust laws but I am not sure what anticompetitive behavior is taking place here? The C&D itself is quite laughable, but spea…

> Plenty of other communications networks are open, so any network effect of "walled gardens" ought to be attributed to the superiority of the product. So, when people evidently complain that they feel the social pressure to use the walled garden even though they rather wouldn't ... then that ought to be attributed to the superiority of the product? Could you explain your reasoning behind that?

What explanation is necessary? You've laid it out already. It's like saying you feel pressure to drive a gasoline powered car instead of a coal powered one because gasoline is much more convenient. The network effect arises out of superiority over competition. The social pressure is a result of everyone using the same platform, which itself is a testament to the product.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#39

Post by qeternity »

yorwba wrote: post #37
qeternity wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think it got big in the first place? "Too much effort to find an alternative" is just a synonym for "superior".

They start out by building a superior product; then that product gets big; then they realize they need to monetize; then the product stops being superior, but it still has everyone's contacts, so most users stay; then the product keeps getting worse until it's unbearable and everyone switches to the most popular superior alternative... WhatsApp is currently in the "no longer superior" phase.

> then the product stops being superior, but it still has everyone's contacts, so most users stay

You're just twisting words here. The fact that switching costs are too high means it's superior. You're defining superiority to be some very strict UX that you've decided.

> then the product keeps getting worse until it's unbearable and everyone switches to the most popular superior alternative

Exactly. Once it stops being superior than people switch.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#40

Post by bkor »

oliwarner wrote: post #34
devit wrote: post #21

The real problem here is that after this stunt I'd like to completely stop using Whatsapp and switch to something else instead, but I can't because other people use Whatsapp and communicating with other people is essential to me. The problem is there no laws to stop whoever becomes the lucky recipient of such a network effect from doing whatever they want. Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider networ…

Saying ~"We need more laws!" isn't enough. What do you specifically want here? We could demand that all network protocols are fair game for reverse-engineering to enable interoperability. Or mandate public specs and save everybody a bit of effort. But if it's my app —not the protocol or the service itself— that's generating revenue to pay for the whole thing (eg adverts), why is it fair to let people and other provid…

> why is it fair to let people and other providers usurp that?

If you have a monopoly then there are various restrictions on what you can do. Whatsapp is pretty much the way to communicate within The Netherlands. Other companies which have a monopoly and/or huge market share (e.g. 2 companies which each have 40% of the market). This e.g. resulted in KPN (ADSL/VDSL) being forced to open up their infrastructure.

I don't see how Whatsapp is earning money via their app, nor how that's relevant in case of a monopoly.

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