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Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

skmurphy.com

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Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#31

Post by kasey_junk »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #25
kasey_junk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shockwave Rider is interesting because of how early it was and how unique at the time. That doesn't establish a subgenre though. Cyberpunk wasn't coined as a term until right around the same time as Neuromancer came out and Neuromancer swept the big sci-fi awards, making it a fair thing to say that it 'helped to establish'.

Brunner is amazing - far ahead of his time.

"Stand on Zanzibar" is one of my favorite books of all times. That said, I think the Shockwave Rider actually holds up less well than Neuromancer, because it was more tuned into the reality of software of its day.

Still a great read though.

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#32

Post by pjc50 »

I often cite this as one of my favourite books, but it's also been a decade or so since I last read it and I should see how it holds up.

However after reading another discussion of it recently, things about it are still yet falling into place for me. Not just the viewpoint that cyber meaning "control systems" is also a theme; for each character, there is something or some means by which they are controlled. Retrospectively a lot of this looks like PTSD; Armitage most obviously, but it's a theme of all the characters and the world itself, including the AIs.

Looking too closely at the technology is a mistake. It's all about the mediation of experience and the aesthetic of it, rather than the details.

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#33

Post by pjc50 »

archagon wrote: post #24
pjc50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the language used to describe drug states and events in cyberspace (such as the Kuang virus) was just so colorful and enticing. If you like this, you may enjoy Jeff Noon.

Vurt? I loved that book so much when I read it a teen! (Reading it a second time didn't entice me quite so much a few years later, and I'm reluctant to read it again as an adult in fear that it'll be more like the second time and not the first.)

Yes - I also have Nymphomation, Pixel Juice, and Falling out Of Cars. Likewise I should give them a re-read. I've always thought of them as the 90s British rave scene version of cyberpunk.

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#34

Post by pmoriarty »

The BBC did a great adaptation of the book to a radio play, complete with professional voice acting, sound effects, even music: [1]

Unfortunately, it's only an abridged version. On the positive side, it's a quick listen, and well worth it if you're a fan (or just want to get a taste).

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S89BHnaxULo

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#35

Post by atombender »

electricslpnsld wrote: post #12
skmurphy wrote: post #2

Neuromancer, William Gibson’s first novel, was published in 1984. It helped to establish the cyberpunk genre of science fiction: a dark future where computing, communication, and artificial intelligence technologies were dominant, complemented by significant medical advances, large inhabited satellites in Earth orbit, and considerable drug use. I recently re-read it and was struck by how things have turned out differ…

> Neuromancer, William Gibson’s first novel, was published in 1984. It helped to establish the cyberpunk genre of science fiction Cyberpunk dates at least a decade before Neuromancer -- Brunner's Shockwave Rider form 1974 comes to mind (and is a pretty interesting and strangely timely read, given that it is almost 50 years old).

Don't forget Alfred Bester. The Stars My Destination and The Demolished Man are interesting precursors to Gibson.

He also wrote a fantastic, underrated novel that is definitely his most cyberpunk: The Computer Connection (1975), also published as Extro. It's great fun, and at times paints a future even more callous about human life than Gibson ever described (the main character is arguably a serial murderer, even if he has good intentions). The book was poorly reviewed at the time, and I wouldn't mind admitting that it's "flawed", but it's still one of my favourites.

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#36

Post by kasey_junk »

jhayward wrote: post #30
kasey_junk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was routinely criticized as not being true to IT when it came out.

Not that I recall, and I read it within months of release. Can you point to some contemporaneous reviews or critiques that do so?

The literary critiques & reviews were hugely positive about Neuromancer, but its a fairly common take down of the book how bad the technology pieces are.

Here is an interview with Gibson where he talks about it: https://www.wired.com/2012/09/interview-with-william-gibson/

(For the record he talks about it in agreement, he thinks he himself could write a good takedown of the technology).

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#37

Post by pmoriarty »

prepend wrote: post #13
mailxplorer wrote: post #7

To me, Ted Nelson's Zigzag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZigZag_(software) - is a similiar view to Neuromancer's virtual reality. It's a shame it's not more popular. Gzz is an excellent version of it.

If only he hadn’t copyrighted/patented it, we might be using it. I find it interesting how frequently “just ok” software is picked up and reaches a critical mass just because it is open. There are many good software projects that won’t grow because of licensing because they are more useful with network effects. I have lots of colleagues who use R for data analysis. It wasn’t that great in the beginning but was widely…

"I find it interesting how frequently "just ok" software is picked up and reaches a critical mass just because it is open. There are many good software projects that won’t grow because of licensing because they are more useful with network effects."

UNIX itself is a great example of this. Look at the graveyard of excellent UNIX flavors that fell by the wayside when free, open Linux came around.

With more open licensing and a different business model, any of them (instead of Linux) might have been the dominant UNIX flavor today.

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#38

Post by bitwize »

electricslpnsld wrote: post #12
skmurphy wrote: post #2

Neuromancer, William Gibson’s first novel, was published in 1984. It helped to establish the cyberpunk genre of science fiction: a dark future where computing, communication, and artificial intelligence technologies were dominant, complemented by significant medical advances, large inhabited satellites in Earth orbit, and considerable drug use. I recently re-read it and was struck by how things have turned out differ…

> Neuromancer, William Gibson’s first novel, was published in 1984. It helped to establish the cyberpunk genre of science fiction Cyberpunk dates at least a decade before Neuromancer -- Brunner's Shockwave Rider form 1974 comes to mind (and is a pretty interesting and strangely timely read, given that it is almost 50 years old).

One of the most significant pre-Gibson cyberpunk titles was True Names by Vernor Vinge -- a computer scientist who understood the nature of technology as it existed at the time of writing.

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#39

Post by beat »

Much of the importance of Neuromancer at the time of publication wasn't that it was so technically correct or insightful, but rather that it connected science fiction to the cultural awareness of punk rock. That seems trite and obvious nowadays, but it was a revelation then. And although you sneer at the technology, his cultural insights were profound and remarkably predictive.

Re: Revisting Neuromancer After Three Decades

#40

Post by beat »

archagon wrote: post #24
pjc50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the language used to describe drug states and events in cyberspace (such as the Kuang virus) was just so colorful and enticing. If you like this, you may enjoy Jeff Noon.

Vurt? I loved that book so much when I read it a teen! (Reading it a second time didn't entice me quite so much a few years later, and I'm reluctant to read it again as an adult in fear that it'll be more like the second time and not the first.)

I read it when it came out, when I was 20 I think. I recently re-read it and still greatly enjoyed it. Give it a spin!
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