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Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

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Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#31

Post by davidwihl »

albntomat0 wrote: post #24
davidwihl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't see it as Harvard enforcing racial quotas but rather looking at the whole student not just academics and standardized test scores. I applaud them for attempting to create a diverse and varied student body. Do you have a better alternative or would you select a student body just by GPA and standardized tests?

That's not what the article said. The key point is that Asian applications scored well in "whole person" metrics when evaluated face to face, from teachers, high school counselors, and alumni interviews, but much worse when graded by Harvard admissions officers, on supposedly similar categories. All of those subjective ratings should be heavily correlated, as they are all trying to measure the same things.

I read the (poorly written) article and disagree with it. I suggest you read Harvard's request for summary judgement (linked in the article) to see how carefully they weigh a multitude of factors.

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#32

Post by [deleted] »

wallace_f wrote: post #19
gourial wrote: post #4

By enforcing racial quotas, Harvard and other institutions are actively cementing race as an important factor in our society, as if it's something we should care about. As such, they are not helping society to become post-racial - as must be our goal - but instead are forcing a racialized view of the world down our collective throats. While well intentioned, racial quotas are a regressive policy and history will look…

>While well intentioned How long can elite bureaucrats play games of selecting winners and losers before we stop giving them the benefit of the doubt? Barriers to entry to competition will always be deleterious to results. Especially when those barriers to entry are based on financial incentives and racism. And let's be honest, anyone familiar is fully aware that at the very least, you can quite easily coast through…

[deleted]

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#33

Post by ekianjo »

gourial wrote: post #4

By enforcing racial quotas, Harvard and other institutions are actively cementing race as an important factor in our society, as if it's something we should care about. As such, they are not helping society to become post-racial - as must be our goal - but instead are forcing a racialized view of the world down our collective throats. While well intentioned, racial quotas are a regressive policy and history will look…

> As such, they are not helping society to become post-racial

It did always use to be like that. In the 70s and 80s there was a focus back on individuals regardless of their race, gender or origin. This trend to put quotas goes with the wave of political correctness that started pretty much in the early 90s.

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#34

Post by 10097338 »

brighteyes wrote: post #11
Rotdhizon wrote: post #6

On the contrary, I wonder how people would view the school if it had no racial based entrances and people were entered solely based on their academic merit. Would people look negatively on the school if it were 90%+ asian-american students?

It wouldn't be 90%. It would be 40%, most likely, because that's what happens in California universities that don't have racial quotas. Even if it would somehow go up to 90%, and people viewed that negatively, why does that matter? Those people are wrong.

> Those people are wrong.

So your opinion is fact?

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#35

Post by ng12 »

brighteyes wrote: post #11
Rotdhizon wrote: post #6

On the contrary, I wonder how people would view the school if it had no racial based entrances and people were entered solely based on their academic merit. Would people look negatively on the school if it were 90%+ asian-american students?

It wouldn't be 90%. It would be 40%, most likely, because that's what happens in California universities that don't have racial quotas. Even if it would somehow go up to 90%, and people viewed that negatively, why does that matter? Those people are wrong.

This is happening in NYC right now. The high-achieving highschools are dominated by Asian-Americans. Admission is granted solely on the basis of a standardized test -- and enough of a stink has been made that the mayor is considering removing it in favor of a more holistic "diverse" approach.

http://abc7ny.com/education/parents-students-protest-plan-to...

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#36

Post by ekianjo »

eganist wrote: post #29
ronyeh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very easy. Admissions should be race blind and name blind. Everything else, including socioeconomic background, can be included in the admissions packet.

Socioeconomic background is blocked out for need-blind schools, of which there are a ton, Harvard included. The application process becomes a strict meritocracy when all of these points (race/name/need) are blocked, which works in a perfect world but does not work when you consider that socioeconomic disparities tend to impact minority races the most. Strict meritocracies are favored in the bay but are substantially…

> The application process becomes a strict meritocracy when all of these points (race/name/need) are blocked, which works in a perfect world but does not work when you consider that socioeconomic disparities tend to impact minority races the most.

Access to education has been one of the best thing to happen to minorities, and Asians are a good example of that. Most came from poor immigrant families and in the space of 2 generations they made it to top universities. So what exactly were we doing wrong? Seems to me the system is clearly working as a social escalator.

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#37

Post by codedokode »

> Yet Harvard’s admissions officials assign Asian Americans the lowest score of any racial group on the personal rating—a “subjective” assessment of such traits as ... “attractive person to be with,” is “widely respected,”...

Why is such an evaluation is even necessary? What is its purpose? To give higher scores to one's relatives and friends? And how do you measure the wideness of respect?

Well, if it is completely private institution then it might be fine but if they use government money such subjective ratings are a good opportunity for corruption.

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#38

Post by wallace_f »

brighteyes wrote: post #11
Rotdhizon wrote: post #6

On the contrary, I wonder how people would view the school if it had no racial based entrances and people were entered solely based on their academic merit. Would people look negatively on the school if it were 90%+ asian-american students?

It wouldn't be 90%. It would be 40%, most likely, because that's what happens in California universities that don't have racial quotas. Even if it would somehow go up to 90%, and people viewed that negatively, why does that matter? Those people are wrong.

NBA all star teams are virtually 100% Black, and 0% Asian.

Does it matter?

Nobody seems to care.

But if a software company or university has too many or too few Asians, then this is some kind of civil rights issue?

Instead of securing equal rights, this country has turned into securing special interest rights. Everything from marijuana prohibition to gay marriage to discrimination goes through its own movement.

Why cant we just all defend everyone's right to life, liberty, and justice?

Everyone deserves equal rights granting equal opportunity. Demanding equal results is to just demand some be Harrison Bergeron'd and others be given reward without merit.

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#39

Post by Spooky23 »

wallace_f wrote: post #19
gourial wrote: post #4

By enforcing racial quotas, Harvard and other institutions are actively cementing race as an important factor in our society, as if it's something we should care about. As such, they are not helping society to become post-racial - as must be our goal - but instead are forcing a racialized view of the world down our collective throats. While well intentioned, racial quotas are a regressive policy and history will look…

>While well intentioned How long can elite bureaucrats play games of selecting winners and losers before we stop giving them the benefit of the doubt? Barriers to entry to competition will always be deleterious to results. Especially when those barriers to entry are based on financial incentives and racism. And let's be honest, anyone familiar is fully aware that at the very least, you can quite easily coast through…

I think that the issue that the “elite bureaucrats” are trying to wrestle with is what defines a University.

Is it a factory for high GPA? A community? Some other thing?

I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, and your disposes bureaucrats have a point. My parents left the big city and moved to the country when I was in middle school. I went to a big public university. I’ve seen a few perspectives of these matters and I’ll tell you straight out that the culture in the melting pot urban environment of my youth was more vital and functional than the mostly white farm town or 90% south/east asian sciences programs that I attended in college.

University should challenge your view of the world, and a community of rich suburbanites and tiger-mom kids isn’t where that will happen.

We should attack the discrimination of employees based on university pedigree — that’s the nasty thing that enables bad behavior, and the thing turning colleges into the monsters is education/entertainment/branding machines that they have become.

Re: Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of Asian-Americans

#40

Post by [deleted] »

Alex3917 wrote: post #22
gourial wrote: post #4

By enforcing racial quotas, Harvard and other institutions are actively cementing race as an important factor in our society, as if it's something we should care about. As such, they are not helping society to become post-racial - as must be our goal - but instead are forcing a racialized view of the world down our collective throats. While well intentioned, racial quotas are a regressive policy and history will look…

> By enforcing racial quotas, Harvard and other institutions are actively cementing race as an important factor in our society That's not really accurate. If you look at the Coleman report, the main study that was done in the run up to school desegregation and forced busing, it showed a bunch of negative impacts to changing the racial balance of institutions too quickly. That research was largely ignored, which in pa…

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