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U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

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Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#31

Post by riantogo »

maxxxxx wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect money but without even the faintest idea how to produce one In America, it's perfectly legal to say "I'm going to make an antimatter drive; give me a million dollars." It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter.

My question is: Did they have a prototype or at least a concept?

Yes, they did. Which involved humans walking over the blood sample to a regular lab setup where they would dilute it and use regular machines to output wrong results. Now all they had to do was find a solution to replace the humans, not having to dilute the sample and output correct results. But pesky investigations got in the way.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#32

Post by edmundhuber »

maxxxxx wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect money but without even the faintest idea how to produce one In America, it's perfectly legal to say "I'm going to make an antimatter drive; give me a million dollars." It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter.

My question is: Did they have a prototype or at least a concept?

From "Bad Blood": they had a prototype called Gluebot which used a robot arm to do standard tests involving a pipette autonomously. However, their tests (using blood collected at Walgreens) were done on "hacked" (altered to cope with much smaller amounts of blood -- by increasing dilution) Siemens blood-testing machines.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#33

Post by minimaxir »

jaredhansen wrote: post #13

While Theranos was flying high, much was made of the company's connections to DC power elite - Kissenger on the board, etc.[1]. And the implication usually seemed to be that the deep bench of Serious And Important And Powerful People allowed the company to get away with things that otherwise would not have been possible. I think it's worth pausing to consider: when's the last time you heard of a startup CEO/CTO team…

> when's the last time you heard of a startup CEO/CTO team getting indicted for wire fraud?

One pled guilty a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16313612

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#35

Post by FireBeyond »

maxxxxx wrote: post #11
zitterbewegung wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the company launched professionals in the medical testing said it was impossible. I believe it was even posted to HN. They stated it was impossible to get the results they would get from the amount of blood given.

That can be OK if the company was started knowing that they had invented something new.

Sure. And while certainly "possible", how likely is it that a 19yo college dropout (who wasn't studying medical sciences) was able to discover a technique that did so, after forty years of multiple multi-billion dollar companies researching the same (after all, the brave new world offered by her dream was hardly new or unpalatable to other players in her field).

And her actions demonstrated she had done no such thing. Buying, hiding, deceiving around traditional venipuncture machines, etc.

This is someone who "had a dream", had connections, and was determined and stubborn, in a bad way. Even now she, and one or two of investors, still believe she has been robbed and wronged, and that the world is worse off without Theranos.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#37

Post by coldtea »

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

>From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out.

So, just like most VC favorite startups?

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#38

Post by SilasX »

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

I'm guessing they struggled over those questions but were reassured by the chorus of "fake it till you make it".

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#39

Post by portman »

minimaxir wrote: post #23
zitterbewegung wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the company launched professionals in the medical testing said it was impossible. I believe it was even posted to HN. They stated it was impossible to get the results they would get from the amount of blood given.

For reference, here's the very first HN submission about Theranos in 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349

Fascinating to read, thank you.

“There are more soldiers in that board there than doctors” is one of the original comments!

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#40

Post by vkou »

maxxxxx wrote: post #11
zitterbewegung wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the company launched professionals in the medical testing said it was impossible. I believe it was even posted to HN. They stated it was impossible to get the results they would get from the amount of blood given.

That can be OK if the company was started knowing that they had invented something new.

The bar for inventing something new in medicine is not "Eh, if you squint, it sorta looks like it works, ship that shit."
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