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Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

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Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#31

Post by Keyframe »

chadash wrote: post #6

This is pay-walled, but here's a summary: The country we now call "Macedonia" (i.e. The Republic of Macedonia) was formed in 1991 after Yugoslavia broke up. Greece didn't like the name, because "Macedonia" was already the name of a large region in Northern Greece. This would be similar to a region of Quebec bordering the US breaking away from Canada and calling itself Maine. Some Greeks apparently felt that the Repub…

Not the greatest analogy, considering both the greek region and the republic were both part of ancient kingdom of Macedonia, and neither modern instance has (much of) any continuity link to ancient Macedonia.

I was there last year. It's a great country to visit as a tourist. There are much political issues still at large there. With Greece, there's that dispute over who has 'the right' to Macedonia. IMO, neither. There was no Greece and there was no (republic) Macedonia back then. There's an argument about language I've heard, that is that Macedonians spoke Greek. Could be, but things change. It's not like local populace disappeared when Slavs rode in. History is complex, yo and it's in no ones interest to bicker over it.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#32

Post by labster »

pavlov wrote: post #29
labster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really correct. The peninsula consists of two Mexican states: Baja California Sur, and Baja California Norte. The United States dropped the "Alta" from Alta California after the process of defeating Mexico. I consider us all Californians, though, despite the political boundaries.

Maybe the previously-Alta California should follow the Mexican example and split into separate north and south states? That would fix issues with federal political representation, at least.

As soon as anyone explains how water would be apportioned in the new system, I might consider it.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#34

Post by Keyframe »

interdrift wrote: post #13
mkempe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could understand them wanting to mark their differences from Serbia, but Bulgaria was the reference point for the emergence of Macedonian nationalism when the Ottomans were pushed out. Do you have references for such anti-Bulgarian sentiment?

Well, I'm Bulgarian, there's much hatred as they like to call us tatars and all kinds of things. Not really very nice, considering they have the same genes as ours, same names, same language(except for a few serb add-ins). Also, they would rather be absorbed by Albania, than join their blood brothers :)

When you generalize like that, who do you refer to when you say 'they'? I've been there last year and I saw a lot of ethnic albanians and met A LOT of people with greek surnames.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#35

Post by [deleted] »

chadash wrote: post #6

This is pay-walled, but here's a summary: The country we now call "Macedonia" (i.e. The Republic of Macedonia) was formed in 1991 after Yugoslavia broke up. Greece didn't like the name, because "Macedonia" was already the name of a large region in Northern Greece. This would be similar to a region of Quebec bordering the US breaking away from Canada and calling itself Maine. Some Greeks apparently felt that the Repub…

[deleted]

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#36

Post by mkempe »

stereo wrote: post #24
mkempe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there three other "Massachusetts"-named states bordering the current Massachusetts? [edit] Maine is not called "North Massachusetts". As for your belief that European borders are unrelated to ethnic/cultural distinctions, do you know much about Europe? [edit: blocked from replying] Were there truly no pre-19th century differences between the peoples and cultures in Finland, Norway, Sweden, and Russia? and no-pre…

There’s a Luxembourg province in Belgium, right next to the country Luxembourg. Nobody gives a damn.

The European powers certainly did at the time of the division between the province and the city-state, since its disputed status almost led to a huge continental war in the aftermath of the Belgian revolution and the creation of the city-state was the resulting compromise.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#37

Post by na85 »

forinti wrote: post #17
pavlov wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of Maine, you can find a better analogy at the opposite end of the United States. There’s a Mexican state named Baja California and a US state named simply California. Exact same thing as this Macedonia business.

I think this analogy shows that names don't really matter: military superiority does.

"Might makes right" is not a new concept.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#38

Post by salex89 »

mkempe wrote: post #8
whatever1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because their main goal is to differentiate as much as possible from Bulgaria.

I could understand them wanting to mark their differences from Serbia, but Bulgaria was the reference point for the emergence of Macedonian nationalism when the Ottomans were pushed out. Do you have references for such anti-Bulgarian sentiment?

Serb here, not sure why would anyone "mix up" macedonians and serbs in any context, and why is a bigger differentiation necessary. Even in the bloodiest years on the Balkans, the relations were very reasonable. Today in Serbia, even the most nationalistic groups (of any kind of influence), don't take Northern Macedonia in discussion.

The relations between Bulgaria and Macedonia were a bit more bumpy, I don't know all of the details, but Bulgarians* consider(ed) Macedonians just as a part of their own and their language as a dialect. Serbian and Macedonian languages are far to different for that. Yes, we can understand each other with some trouble, but that is no where near like Croatian, Bosnian, Montenegrin and Serbian which at times sound identical.

The only issue is the conflict between the Serbian and Macedonian Orthodox churches, but that really does not have effect on anything else than themselves.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#39

Post by albinary10 »

stoic_beard wrote: post #20
salex89 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only guess because around a quarter of the population is Albanian, and they currently (and probably will also in the future) constitute the parliamentary majority. The Albanian population is currently in a surge, and Albanians don't really like to be mixed up with Slavs...

"Around a quarter of the population is Albanian" - is this also your educated guess, or something you "read" online? The FACT is that the last Census was done in 2002. According to conservative estimates pulled from the Health Ministry, there are less than 20% of Albanians currently residing on the territory of Macedonia. And a little free lesson in history for you: The Slavs you are referring to, in the 6th century…

According to the 2002 Census, 46.5% of the children aged 0–4 were Muslim. Macedonians will be minority very soon. It might come a time when this country will be called Eastern Albania.

Given the extreme nationalism of the Macedonians I do not think this country will resist history very long in this configuration. And if they do not accept the Albanians and do not live in peace with them they will be soon a tiny joke country.

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