Don’t use webrtc for live video. It doesn’t scale with CDNs. Use dash/hls.
Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
31–40 of 56 posts
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#32What amazes me is the lack of concern on latency for web streaming. We use the internet (and IP in general) to stream video. At high bitrates (200mbit+) we aim for sub 100ms end to end, for compressed services we're happy with 500ms, maybe upto a second if it's something like Sydney to London over the internet. I was in a control room a couple of weeks ago watching some football. There were two displays, one end was…
In the US we've seen a half-dozen over-the-top TV providers launch in the past couple of years. They all seem to understand that live sports is their core feature, yet none of them tries to compete on latency. I regularly see two or more minutes from reading tweets about a goal or touchdown (from broadcast or cable viewers) until I see that TD live on Sling / PSVue / DirecTV NOW / YouTube TV (I've tried them all). Se…
Doesn't "second-screening" while watching a sports event interfere with the act of watching the sports event in the first place?
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#33I watched the UCL final via YouTube this year and the Bet365 webapp kept telling me about goals half a minute before it happened on the screen. To be honest, if you're isolated the delay doesn't really matter.
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#34I've started building P2P live adaptive (DASH) live video streaming using WebRTC with distributed rate control mechanism some time ago and I am planning to open source it. Basically using that you could build your own p2p global distributed live adaptive video streaming CDN (or use it on one server only). Adding new supporting server (to add additional bandwidth) in this solution is just as easy as spawning vm/server and launch binary. Distributed signaling server with GEO/region based peer distribution, full real time statistics on whole network health, analytics, network automatically adapts to bandwidth shortage (if for some reason network can't sustain itself) switching to lower bandwidth versions of the stream. Very easy to use, you would need to set one config file only, launch 2 binaries and add one JS file to source of your site and you are ready to go.
Anyone interested in this?
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
You comment mentions two types of latency: 1. network latency, in milliseconds, that affects stream quality and stability 2. the delay (lag) between real-time capture and what the end user is seeing; this one is usually measured in seconds. A stream needs to be ingested, transcoded, sent from distribution servers to edge servers in each target region - with each step adding to the delay. Minimizing the lag is very ha…
60 seconds in the case of iplayer for the fa cup. 1m20 in the case of BBC News channel right now. HLS tends to be packetised in something like 15 second chunks at the end of the process. I know why there's a delay, I'm just amazed that people aren't concerned about it. The BBC used to offer multicast sources of live TV, which is a far more sensible solution, far more bandwidth efficient and allows end-to-end transmis…
As for what TV people have been doing - YES.
No matter what anybody says, the Internet just isn't well suited for massive live streaming events. That's what television is for!
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#36Life pro tip: Just use an ace stream and have zero connectivity issues. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccerstreams/comments/82ac7j/acest... My brother bought the MMA ticket to watch mcgregor vs mayweather and it was a horrible experience. I booted up my laptop and ran an acestream, boom crystal clear high definition image with zero network issues.
Of course, those streams are not legal.
Ah, that explains the superior user experience.
Here’s hoping sports get the memo re: usability. Music piracy plummetted after Spotify arrived on the scene.
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
You comment mentions two types of latency: 1. network latency, in milliseconds, that affects stream quality and stability 2. the delay (lag) between real-time capture and what the end user is seeing; this one is usually measured in seconds. A stream needs to be ingested, transcoded, sent from distribution servers to edge servers in each target region - with each step adding to the delay. Minimizing the lag is very ha…
60 seconds in the case of iplayer for the fa cup. 1m20 in the case of BBC News channel right now. HLS tends to be packetised in something like 15 second chunks at the end of the process. I know why there's a delay, I'm just amazed that people aren't concerned about it. The BBC used to offer multicast sources of live TV, which is a far more sensible solution, far more bandwidth efficient and allows end-to-end transmis…
I hate that I try to stream a game for my friends and they don't see what I did til 10-15s later. I'm trying to have discussions with them in real time on our voice chat server and any input they give me is inherently dated. Mumble gives extremely low latency, so achieving this kind of thing over the internet isn't exactly impossible, the bandwidth requirements of video would probably make it a bit more iffy, but should still be doable with some random issues.
Maybe I just need to get away from the public streaming services which use HLS, switch to UDP streams and sub-1s buffer sizes.
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting factoid, but some press have agreed to intentional latency as a security feature around certain events and dignitaries. The theory being that a sniper or drone operator cannot use the "live TV" footage to know their exact position. In some cases international viewers may see the "live" footage before local ones.
> The theory being that a sniper or drone operator cannot use the "live TV" footage to know their exact position. How is this helpful in either of these cases? A sniper needs eyes on, a drone operator probably has live video from the drone. I don't see how a TV delay would have any effect.
I'm going to assume the example was a bad one. I could see something like a remotely activated bomb leveraging live TV to inflict the most damage.
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
You comment mentions two types of latency: 1. network latency, in milliseconds, that affects stream quality and stability 2. the delay (lag) between real-time capture and what the end user is seeing; this one is usually measured in seconds. A stream needs to be ingested, transcoded, sent from distribution servers to edge servers in each target region - with each step adding to the delay. Minimizing the lag is very ha…
60 seconds in the case of iplayer for the fa cup. 1m20 in the case of BBC News channel right now. HLS tends to be packetised in something like 15 second chunks at the end of the process. I know why there's a delay, I'm just amazed that people aren't concerned about it. The BBC used to offer multicast sources of live TV, which is a far more sensible solution, far more bandwidth efficient and allows end-to-end transmis…
Hey, I was also at Demuxed last year! I help maintain Hls.js; it should have some form of LHLS support by soon(tm). There's no standard yet so actual adoption will be tough (current implementations use non-standard EXT-X tags to signal LHLS). But pretty much everyone does the same thing: early signaling of segments, chunked transfers, and on the client side, progressive demuxing. HTTP-based solutions typically achieve the aforementioned 3 seconds, but anyone talking about LHLS now (Akamai and Wowza) have their own protocols; it remains to be seen what the rest of us will get.
Twitch has recently implemented LHLS (looks like a "periscope-style" implementation) and I was seeing 1.2s glass-to-glass.
Re: Avoid FIFA World Cup CDN Issues
#40Life pro tip: Just use an ace stream and have zero connectivity issues. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccerstreams/comments/82ac7j/acest... My brother bought the MMA ticket to watch mcgregor vs mayweather and it was a horrible experience. I booted up my laptop and ran an acestream, boom crystal clear high definition image with zero network issues.
Of course, those streams are not legal.
Yep, be smart or take the single "warning letter" from your ISP.