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If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

nytimes.com

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Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#31

Post by sandworm101 »

exabrial wrote: post #7

The article talks about how globalization caused automation to replace millions of factory workers. Factory jobs, aren't the greatest, especially before the 1970s, and in many parts of the world, are still awful. Similarly, If we could replace every mining job with robots we'd remove a lot of human abuse in many parts of the world.

>> If we could replace every mining job with robots we'd remove a lot of human abuse in many parts of the world.

Reducing the value of human labor never goes well. As people become less valuable they become easier to abuse. There will always be a dirtier and more dangerous job to be done.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#32

Post by chongli »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #20
mc32 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d also remove the way for lots of people to make a living. The unemployed only know that making a living in a lousy industry is better than not making any living at all.

That's exactly the point. Humans rely on jobs, what happens when robots take over?

We don't actually rely on jobs, we just force one another to work to satisfy our principles of fairness. In theory we could agree on a different notion of fairness that doesn't require everybody to work, we just choose not to.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#33

Post by sp332 »

trhway wrote: post #8

Robots don't come for government jobs?

Solution: the government should hire everybody. They've already got a good start with about 2% of all workers directly employed and another 2% working for contractors. Add state and local government with another 8% of the working population and we're well on our way to full employment. I'm kind of joking but it's interesting to think of job creation projects like WPA taken to a further extreme.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#34

Post by Clubber »

Proven wrote: post #2

The government should do precisely NOTHING. The jobs don't belong to workers, so the premise is entirely wrong to begin with.

Right, but the country these companies operate in, the infrastructure they rely on, the laws that allow capitalism to succeed, and the battalions needed to protect it does belong to the citizens, so ignore the citizenry at your peril.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#36

Post by Jtsummers »

chongli wrote: post #32
nickthemagicman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the point. Humans rely on jobs, what happens when robots take over?

We don't actually rely on jobs, we just force one another to work to satisfy our principles of fairness. In theory we could agree on a different notion of fairness that doesn't require everybody to work, we just choose not to.

What are some potential alternatives?

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#37

Post by pentae »

trendia wrote: post #16
swayvil wrote: post #12

Do guaranteed minimum income. Give everybody a computer and lots of free time. If 0.001% of those people become hobbyist software developers it will pay for the program in a year. And we will probably get AI in two.

The total US tax revenue in 2017 was $3.422 trillion. If you split that evenly among 300 million people, each would get $11,000, which is half of the poverty line of $22,000. Even if you thought that little money was acceptable, to afford it you'd have to cut: 1. all military programs 2. all existing social security programs 3. all government infrastructure projects 4. all education programs 5. ...

It still amazes me that so many people don't get this.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#38

Post by hinkley »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #19

The simplest solution is an automation tax which is revenue neutral. Any time automation moves in to an industry, the tax's revenues can be used to help transition those workers into other work, or give them at least an automation relief stipend. If we don't tax automation, what's to stop increasingly cheaper automation from replacing increasingly expensive first world workers? Especially when businesses are expected…

Another solution is to claw back mineral rights by taxing raw materials. You burn the sky, take the water, dig in the ground, that is something the citizens don’t get to use. You owe them.

The thing I like about this (its not my model but it’s my favorite) is that it happens at the input side so it codifies the idea of Reduce Reuse Recycle by setting a base cost where it’s cheaper to recycle and purify than it is to use virgin materials.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#39

Post by kickopotomus »

creaghpatr wrote: post #27

And despite all of these concerns, the NYT frequently and consistently advocates for increases in low-skill immigrants, the very people who will the government will need to support when the 'robots come for [their] jobs'. The question is which of those 2 arguments are disingenuous?

I don't think either are disingenuous. It's more so short-term vs long-term thinking. The influx of low-skilled immigrant labor is a "right now" issue whereas The level of automation needed to make them obsolete is optimistically 10-15 years away.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#40

Post by mc32 »

CodeCube wrote: post #18
mc32 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d also remove the way for lots of people to make a living. The unemployed only know that making a living in a lousy industry is better than not making any living at all.

This is the reality ... it's happening. Industry will always optimize, and as technology marches forward, they will replace human workers with technology when it makes financial sense to do so. The discussion should be, "what do we do when that happens"?

I think countries around the world are starting to realize that globalization while having lifted millions out of uttter poverty has now also turned its power to extract wealth toward those to whom it promised to bring greater opportunity which never came (I’m looking at you, Michael Moore’s castaway workers the industrialized world over; people who can no longer raise a family on a blue collar job because they were shipped over seas).
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