Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 190 posts

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#31

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

It might in some ways be closer to repurposing an old military installation because of the way mall interiors are designed to be intentionally confusing, disorienting e.g. [0]. It’s a highly specialized facility, in which the layout is optimized to serve a heavily researched purpose.

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruen_transfer >

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#32

Post by bryondowd »

jessaustin wrote: post #13
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #3

In the common conception of markets no seller has enough power to sit on their laurels, they must sell their product in order to survive. It seems wrong to me that in the real estate market liquidity would drop as prices drop. There needs to be a cost associated with holding real estate so that there is turnover in good times and bad times.

Owners of real estate already pay property taxes. Are you just proposing that those be increased? And you think that will make real estate more valuable? I'm missing something here...

He didn't say anything about making it more valuable, just that it would increase liquidity. In other words, the idea would be to prevent property from sitting dormant in a bad market, as an owner who has no profitable use for the property would be forced to sell it to someone who does, to get at least some value out of it before the tax eats all the value.

Perhaps something like an abandonment tax could accomplish this. Force owners to either sell it or use it. Even if they aren't using it optimally, just requiring some minimum usage to avoid a heavy penalty tax could go a long way to eliminating properties that are just tied up by someone hoping the value goes up eventually.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#33

Post by wlesieutre »

foobarian wrote: post #17
projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

A local mall in Natick MA recently lost one of their anchor stores (JCPenney) and replaced it with a Wegman's, which the first I saw a supermarket as an anchor store. I would love to know how desperate they must have been or how sweet of a deal they gave Wegman's to make this happen.

If I had a Wegman's I'd go to the mall. They're in Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey, but seem to have something against Connecticut. :(

On the malls note, the Chapel Square Mall in downtown New Haven got turned into apartments before I moved here. It's weird and seriously depressing looking, though I haven't seen the interior courtyard area myself. There has to be a better way to do it than this:

https://betweentworocks.com/welcome-new-havens-strangest-apa...

If anyone's curious to see the location on google maps/satellite, this is just behind the Omni New Haven hotel, the row of skylights is easy to pick out.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#34

Post by dredmorbius »

jessaustin wrote: post #13
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #3

In the common conception of markets no seller has enough power to sit on their laurels, they must sell their product in order to survive. It seems wrong to me that in the real estate market liquidity would drop as prices drop. There needs to be a cost associated with holding real estate so that there is turnover in good times and bad times.

Owners of real estate already pay property taxes. Are you just proposing that those be increased? And you think that will make real estate more valuable? I'm missing something here...

Land value tax: a levy on the unimproved value of land.

It actually depresses the price of land, by socialising the positive value. But it also increases the available supply, paradoxically: given that land is price-inelastic, the supply doesn't change relative to price. Increase the carrying cost and the result is that landlords must sell or rent in order to cover costs. This is particularly associated with Henry George, though his work was based heavily on David Ricardo and Adam Smith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/392c33a6-211f-11e3-8aff-00144feab7... (Alternate: http://archive.is/iQMRn )

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#35

Post by wz1000 »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #3

In the common conception of markets no seller has enough power to sit on their laurels, they must sell their product in order to survive. It seems wrong to me that in the real estate market liquidity would drop as prices drop. There needs to be a cost associated with holding real estate so that there is turnover in good times and bad times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#37

Post by Karrot_Kream »

codingdave wrote: post #7
projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

It could be a whole new flavor for YC or other incubators - don't come to SF and fight to find housing... come to the new Coding Mall - offices are in the East Wing, apartment in the West Wing, demos and sales kiosks in the former Sears, VC offices in the former JC Penney, and everyone meets up in the food court (which is still running, btw, to keep everyone fed) for informal discussions.

Zoning makes this prohibitive in most of America unfortunately

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#38

Post by alanfalcon »

projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

The best AR theme parks :-)

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#40

Post by mbreese »

codingdave wrote: post #7
projectramo wrote: post #2

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

It could be a whole new flavor for YC or other incubators - don't come to SF and fight to find housing... come to the new Coding Mall - offices are in the East Wing, apartment in the West Wing, demos and sales kiosks in the former Sears, VC offices in the former JC Penney, and everyone meets up in the food court (which is still running, btw, to keep everyone fed) for informal discussions.

In Indianapolis, one defunct mall was turned into datacenter space [0]... so you could have it all in one place.

[0] http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/10/30/lifel...

Post reply on HN