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Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

blog.snapeda.com

31–40 of 61 posts

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was Zarch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNXypBxNGMo This was the gold standard at the time.

Very much like the Zeewolf https://youtu.be/tVwScInZfP8?t=159 I wonder what the connection is.

Zarch : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarch, 1987 Zeewolf : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeewolf, 1994

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#32
post #7

I would hope it runs something other than BASIC. BASIC is a terrible language, and the only reason it became popular is that there was a book published with a lot of games written in that language. People buying a home computer wanted games, and the commercial game market was initially nonexistent, so people wanted a computer with BASIC, since then they assumed they could play those games. The designers of this new c…

I...don't think that's accurate. As far as I can tell, just about every significant 8-bit personal computer shipped with its own version of BASIC, starting with the Apple II in 1977. I really doubt that all of those were inspired by one book, especially since they used such different implementations that only the very simplest text-only programs could be ported without modification.

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#33
post #7

I would hope it runs something other than BASIC. BASIC is a terrible language, and the only reason it became popular is that there was a book published with a lot of games written in that language. People buying a home computer wanted games, and the commercial game market was initially nonexistent, so people wanted a computer with BASIC, since then they assumed they could play those games. The designers of this new c…

People forget that the B in BASIC stands for beginners, and for this purpose it's been tremendously successful. There's a real tension between the kind of languages that are preferred by users and those that are preferred by CS theorists.

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much like the Zeewolf https://youtu.be/tVwScInZfP8?t=159 I wonder what the connection is.

Zarch : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarch , 1987 Zeewolf : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeewolf , 1994

The visuals look very similar, but I can't see any continuity in the wikipeadia article.

OTOH, the sqare grid terrain can be traced to at least https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_Fire although that was a sequel to a completely different game

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#35
post #17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Likewise, I think Tramiel could have done something similar instead of diving down the 68000 path with the Atari ST. The Atari ST was built from scratch in less than 8 months after the deal to license the Amiga chipset fell trouhg. The ST is an amazing engineering feat considering the insane schedule. I agree on you that the 68k is a terrible CPU for gaming, but it got better when there was some cache added to it, s…

I always wonder if considering the processor and the “chunky pixels” of the Archimedes if had had something like a Wolfenstein or Doom back in 1987 if it would have driven sales enough to change. Ofcourse that was probably pretty unlikely considering the Acorn/Olivetti bet so heavily on the education market.

Probably not quite enough raw MIPS in 1987, but people have since ported it: http://gerph.org/riscos/ramble/doomplus.html

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#36
post #4

Any tips getting into mechanical design ? I love designing PCBs, creating a schematic, then laying out the component and traces in the most elegant way is very satisfying. However when it comes to 3D stuff I wouldn't know where to begin.

Download Fusion 360 (probably the easiest of the serious programs and free for hobbyists), and start playing around, try making some enclosures for your PCBs copying features from existing objects around you.

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the death of 8-bit systems was obvious by 89, but so was the death of the 68000. Motorola was already pushing the failed 88000 by the late 80s. And the 68000 itself was killed off only a couple years later. So I don't really agree with you here. The 68000 was as big of a dead end, and IMHO was a terrible CPU for home computers and gaming machines. It was fast for 16 and 32 bit integer arithmetic, so basically go…

> The Amiga would have been more responsive What was the problem with Amiga responsiveness? Never heard about this. Interrupt response? What? For several years, it had the best games. The bitplane-based graphics system became a hindrance with FPS-games but that was never about the CPU.

If you go back and look at those games again, the frame rate, it's not that great. Many of the 8-bit machines actually had better responsiveness and frame rates. Yes, the Amiga was awesome. It was not perfect.

Also, as far as 68000-based machines goes, the X68000 kicks the Amiga's ass.

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#39
post #7

I would hope it runs something other than BASIC. BASIC is a terrible language, and the only reason it became popular is that there was a book published with a lot of games written in that language. People buying a home computer wanted games, and the commercial game market was initially nonexistent, so people wanted a computer with BASIC, since then they assumed they could play those games. The designers of this new c…

BASIC is a terrible language, and the only reason it became popular is that there was a book published with a lot of games written in that language. Not even close. BASIC was a very powerful language. Not "powerful" in the way we think of languages today with OOP and all that, but powerful in its flexibility. Each machine had its own version of BASIC that made the most of each machine's unique capabilities. Games wer…

No, not every version of BASIC made the most of the underlying machine's capabilities. The BASIC on the C64 (the most popular 8-bit machine of all time) did not support graphics or sound.

Seriously, there was no support for what made the C64 the C64 in the C64 BASIC! You wanted grpahics? PEEK and POKE. Sound? PEEK and POKE.

Re: Building the Commodore computer that should have existed

#40
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the death of 8-bit systems was obvious by 89, but so was the death of the 68000. Motorola was already pushing the failed 88000 by the late 80s. And the 68000 itself was killed off only a couple years later. So I don't really agree with you here. The 68000 was as big of a dead end, and IMHO was a terrible CPU for home computers and gaming machines. It was fast for 16 and 32 bit integer arithmetic, so basically go…

>Likewise, I think Tramiel could have done something similar instead of diving down the 68000 path with the Atari ST. The Atari ST was built from scratch in less than 8 months after the deal to license the Amiga chipset fell trouhg. The ST is an amazing engineering feat considering the insane schedule. I agree on you that the 68k is a terrible CPU for gaming, but it got better when there was some cache added to it, s…

Yeah don't get me wrong, I was an ST user and loved it. It was a business and technical accomplishment. All respect to it. My point was only that for that class of machines what we really needed was wider address buses, not necessarily wider data buses. Along with a wider data bus came slower cycle times for a bunch of operations. And cost.
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