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Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

theglobeandmail.com

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Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#31

Post by ihsw2 »

stormbrew wrote: post #12
remarkEon wrote: post #2

Why would a lottery be used at all for picking “winners” for immigration? On multiple levels that seems unfair and wrong.

If they were actually accepting all applications that meet the criteria, that would make first come first serve more fair, but there are quotas so they have to reject N-1 applications regardless of their application. Lottery systems are generally considered fairer than first come first serve because they don't advantage people who apply early. Especially in an immigration-related process where circumstances are likel…

Sure, just make the process much more restrictive. The idea is to take in the best, not help the most vulnerable.

Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#32

Post by mortehu »

ihsw2 wrote: post #31
stormbrew wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were actually accepting all applications that meet the criteria, that would make first come first serve more fair, but there are quotas so they have to reject N-1 applications regardless of their application. Lottery systems are generally considered fairer than first come first serve because they don't advantage people who apply early. Especially in an immigration-related process where circumstances are likel…

Sure, just make the process much more restrictive. The idea is to take in the best, not help the most vulnerable.

> The idea is to take in the best

Is that really the purpose of the family-reunification program?

Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#33

Post by zouhair »

nos4A2 wrote: post #5
remarkEon wrote: post #2

Why would a lottery be used at all for picking “winners” for immigration? On multiple levels that seems unfair and wrong.

Its still better than using the place of birth as a determining factor.

You can still use that in concomitance with the lottery.

Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#34

Post by [deleted] »

jedberg wrote: post #9

All the other points about the unfairness makes sense, but the complaint about the poor random number generator does not make sense. This isn't a multistep process that the "adversary" has access to. It doesn't matter how bad the random number generator is or even if it is predictable. Sure you could bribe the person putting it into excel I suppose, but you could do that anyway and just have them switch numbers aroun…

[deleted]

Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#35

Post by ihsw2 »

mortehu wrote: post #32
ihsw2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, just make the process much more restrictive. The idea is to take in the best, not help the most vulnerable.

> The idea is to take in the best Is that really the purpose of the family-reunification program ?

That's a typo.

Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#36

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

white-flame wrote: post #27
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #23

“We stand by this randomized selection process as a sufficient means of equal opportunity for all who look to express an interest in sponsoring their parents and grandparents.” Ignorance is bliss. Math class is tough.

Random selection is literally equal opportunity.

The selection isn't random. Cargo culting the magic number machine is the crux of the problem.

Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#37

Post by stormbrew »

Trundle wrote: post #21
stormbrew wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were actually accepting all applications that meet the criteria, that would make first come first serve more fair, but there are quotas so they have to reject N-1 applications regardless of their application. Lottery systems are generally considered fairer than first come first serve because they don't advantage people who apply early. Especially in an immigration-related process where circumstances are likel…

Sure. Attach a price tag to it.

Ah yes, because "the people with the most money get in" is the absolute definition of fair for sure.

Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#39

Post by oliwarner »

This is plenty Random Enough(TM).

TFA makes it sound like spending $10M on consulting for a "true" random source here is more appetising; that it would be any different, objectively better. It's nonsense.

Be happy your government is using the tools it has rather than putting every function out to tender (as seems to happen in the UK).

Re: Canada using Excel function for immigration lottery

#40

Post by mistermann »

forapurpose wrote: post #25
mistermann wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other options are to let everybody in or to suppose you already know the right criteria for who'd be the "best" immigrants. Hint: you don't. On an individual basis of course not, but you don't think in the aggregate better candidates can be chosen?

No. If the information is not about the individual, then it isn't useful in evaluating the individual. I know that sounds tautological, but it seems that obvious.

> No. If the information is not about the individual, then it isn't useful in evaluating the individual.

But I very clearly was asking about the aggregate, in fact I specifically said it isn't useful on an individual basis.

In the propaganda game, not showing one's cards is one of the first things to learn.

> I know that sounds tautological

Learning the meaning of words is pretty high on the list as well.

Also humility. :)

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