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China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

economist.com

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Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#31

Post by surfanddurf »

I think we, as the world, need to counter this by

1.) Start moving factories out China, back into your local country. It could be an upgrade for companies to upgrade to more automated factories. Furthermore, it fights against China's agenda of 'Made in China in 2025', which they expect to make....everything in China.

2.) Shame companies that are investing further in China, destroying jobs in your local country.

3.) Stop buying things that are made in China. China doesn't have a big enough consumer base; it requires developed countries to purchase their good.

4.) Let everyone know about China's concentration camps that affect 1M+ muslims.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#32

Post by swedish_mafia »

The question is this: which is more meritocratic - a totalitarian system of governance that rewards merit or a caste system masquerading as an open society? Please answer a or b.

Another question: system a: a developer with an idea and skills sitting in Montana believes (correctly) that the chances of getting funded are exponentially higher for people from Stanford university (or some other affiliation). System b : there is a similar guy sitting in a a rural shithole in China and he believes that he has an equal shot at vc funding as the next guy. Which system wins?

Just asking.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#34

Post by nathanyukai »

duxup wrote: post #7
volgo wrote: post #5

Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

The history of that region taught the Chinese government that if they don't do something about it, then extreme religious groups may cause serious damage.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#35

Post by beebmam »

raverbashing wrote: post #23
duxup wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

As opposed to the western approach which lets religious fundamentalists profess their anti-semitism, anti-atheism and misoginy freely and violently? Example: http://www.france24.com/en/20180511-saudi-financed-belgian-m... And while freedom of expression is important, it is limited (especially in Germany). Racists expressions are a no-no pretty much everywhere. Now Jews feel increasingly unsafe in the streets of Europ…

Freely, yes. People in the United States have the right to express publicly whatever their beliefs are. And we also have the right to judge people based on their beliefs.

I'm not sure about the rest of the "western" world. But I this the way it is in the United States.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#36

Post by duxup »

jrs95 wrote: post #28
duxup wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

The presence of the "nonviolent" but complacent and complicit minority in these countries is what enables things to be the way they are. Maybe not everyone participates, but if you poll them on whether or not they support honor killings, oppression of women, etc. a large number will agree. This is not some fringe set of beliefs. Now personally I don't think we need to "do something about it", but the U.S. has actuall…

You support mass oppression and claim to be concerned about opression of women?

I doubt your sincerity about that and the rest of your arguments.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#37

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nathanyukai wrote: post #34
duxup wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

The history of that region taught the Chinese government that if they don't do something about it, then extreme religious groups may cause serious damage.

You mean like when the Qing used the uighurs to exterminate the dhungzar mongols in the first place?

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#38

Post by all2well »

volgo wrote: post #5

Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…

>Not sure if China's hard handed approach may work

I think the lesson of the 20th century is that denying people's humanity and dignity as individuals leads to corpses piling up very, very fast.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#39

Post by wafflebear »

raverbashing wrote: post #23
duxup wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

As opposed to the western approach which lets religious fundamentalists profess their anti-semitism, anti-atheism and misoginy freely and violently? Example: http://www.france24.com/en/20180511-saudi-financed-belgian-m... And while freedom of expression is important, it is limited (especially in Germany). Racists expressions are a no-no pretty much everywhere. Now Jews feel increasingly unsafe in the streets of Europ…

Hitchens called himself an "antitheist" and certainly expressed that sentiment freely, I don't see why someone shouldn't express anti-atheism freely.

Violence is obviously already illegal, as is anti-semitism in many western countries.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#40

Post by adventured »

bobthepanda wrote: post #16
volgo wrote: post #5

Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…

Usually oppressing a major marginalized group with blunt, heavy-handed approaches only serves to intensify local support. Particularly if two reasons for marginalization coincide greatly (say, ethnicity and religion) See: Catalans, Scotland, Kashmir, Palestine, Tuaregs in Mali, etc.

China of course knows that. It's why they have the knives chained to the walls. Their intention is to entirely prevent the Uighur people from being able to defend themselves or fight back.

I keep wondering what China is going to do when these efforts fail (genocide being the primary worry). Xi's dictatorship will only grow more powerful and oppressive in the next five or ten years, as is nearly universal with the history of dictatorships. I don't believe China will be able to strip away the religious beliefs & culture easily, nor near-term. The only way they can do it, is over a very long time frame, and by trying to forcibly prevent the next generations from becoming Muslims.

As news of what's going on there spreads globally, to the Middle East and other bordering Islamic regions, China may have to build considerable border fortifications to keep terrorists out (people seeking revenge, or just an excuse to wage jihad, and attempting to flow weapons in). China of course borders Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan - all Muslim majority nations.

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